| Author | Message | | Ken Halliwell | | Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | And either way, they likely could have finished off the Liberty if that had been the intent (assuming they had torpedos remaining). |
Assuming they were willing to take the risk of not being blown out of the water by Sixth Fleet fighters that, for all they knew, were on their way to engage them and really pissed-off about them sinking Liberty | .
So the Israelis who allegedly knew that it was a US ship and allegedly knew the US radio frequencies wouldn't know... | Bingo. The IDF had its own signal intelligence operations -- no doubt about it. Odds are they were monitoring the Sixth Fleet's common HF communication channels for activity. As soon as the unencrypted and uncoded call for help went out, on the HICOM frequency, from Liberty, and was responded to by Saratoga, the IDF's signal intercept folks would have been on it like flys to honey. | |  | | Ken Halliwell | | Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | Never mind that he US told the Israelis that we had no Navy ships in the area... | This it total BS... Regardless of what the US may or may not have told the Israelis, the IDF claims it knew full well that USS Liberty was in the area based information from a morning recon flight. According to the IDF, a marker for Liberty was on kept on a plotting table until shortly before noon. Then the watch changed and the new crew removed the marker, so says the IDF. After that time, everybody everywhere in the IDF apparently had amnesia about Liberty ever being in the area. | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:16 am Post subject: |
| But the US Navy saying that there were no US Navy ships in the area wouldn't create uncertainty about identification, would it?
 | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
| From Chief Thompson's testimony...
Q. Please state your full name and rate.
Harold Jessie Thompson, Chief Communications Technician,
U.S. Navy, USS LIBERTY AGTR-5.
Q. Do you know this Court of Inquiry has been convened to
ascertain facts incident to the attack on USS LIBERTY?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Would you please tell this Court the event you recall of
this attack?
A. We had just secured from general quarters drill and I
had gone on main deck with petty officer HAROLD to discuss
training and some of the attitudes toward training, when I
heard a rocket come past and hit. At this time, I wasn't
sure it was a rocket. I thought it was a shore battery, and
I was either knocked down or I ducked quick. Then I got up
and started running across the deck to repair two locker
which is inside the forecastle. I was knocked down again,
but made it inside to start breaking out the damage control
equipment, getting stretcher bearers on deck, and taking
stock of the situation. The attack appeared to last, I
would say about 20 minutes to half an hour. Time is
difficult to recall. Then I was alone and word was passed
over sound powered phones to DC Central to standby for a
torpedo attach. This was passed two or
[87]
three times, and I believe it was on the first time it was
passed that we got hit. It seemed to take quite awhile for
the torpedo to hit. The explosion wasn't too loud where we
were. The deck lifted about a foot I'd day, and then we
settled right way to a starboard list to about ten degrees.
Although at the time it seemed a little greater. Then we
were strafed at about the same time. I couldn't say whether
it was before or after by the patrol boats. At first I
thought it was the ammunition box over the repair locker
where the ammunition had gotten hot and was exploding, then
we determined that it was a strafing attack. The sound would
coupled with my sighting of the torpedo boats later would
indicate 50 caliber and 40 mm. There were several holes in
the forecastle and the area around the repair locker.
Nobody was hit inside. Later on the bridge asked for
signalmen from various places on the ship. Nobody seamed to
be available so I said I couldn't read flags but I could
read light. They said they didn't need me at this time and
that they wanted me to stay in the repair locker. Word was
passed again to standby for torpedo attack starboard side
and again the word went out for signalmen. Once again I
told them I could not read flags, but if I could be of
service. I was asked to report to the bridge, which I did.
When I got up there, signalman David was attempting to rig a
hand light. I assisted him. We went to the starboard wing
of the bridge and one torpedo boat was making a run straight
at us off the starboard beam while the other two stood off.
At the Captain's directions, David sent "US Naval Ship" ''US
Naval Ship." When they were about 500 yards off, the
torpedo boat turned astern and came up on the stern on the
starboard side and flashed, "do you need help?''
Q. Was this before the torpedo hit?
A. This was after the torpedo hit us, and we were surprised
by the attack. The Captain was giving us word. He said,
"no, thank you." We sent this back to the boat, and our
steering was somewhat erratic and they came up on the port
side then. David went across, I followed him, and saw on
the last part of that message, David said, "Do you want us
to
[88]
standby?" I passed this word to the Captain. He said, "no,
thank you." We sent this to the patrol boat. They came up
along port side, I say roughly 100 yards off, flashed "good
luck" and dropped astern along with the other two which had
come up to the stern, to a mile or a mile and a half back,
just about out of sight. Then they made one high speed run
directly astern and somewhere between a quarter and a half
mile back made a U-turn and disappeared. That was the last
we saw of them. Shortly afterwards, and Israeli helicopter
came, hovered off the bridge and tried to hand signal us,
and dropped a note on the forecastle which was brought to
the bridge. | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | Bingo. The IDF had its own signal intelligence operations -- no doubt about it. Odds are... |
"no doubt"
"Odds are..."
Can't get more definitive than that, can we? | | | | Ken Halliwell | | Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
| I recommend the following book:
"Israel's Secret Wars: A History of Israel's Intelligence Services"
By Ian Black and Benny Morris
ISBN-10 0802132863
ISBN-13 978-0802132864
Among other things, the book provides a minor history of Israel's involvement with radio (signal) intelligence operations from about 1949 onward.
It's unbelievable that Israel's radio intelligence operations were completely ignorant of U.S. Navy HF radio frequencies, and did not monitor these frequencies during the Six Day War. | | | | DanielDives | | Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: |
| Hi Ken be aware of Cowboy's statement
'If you really check the numbers, it works out to less than 44 posts per day, and a great many of those take mere seconds to post.'
So, if you're looking for an unbiased , honest debate,,, you're barking up the wrong tree here. There isn't any. Smokescreens, yes. Substance, no. | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: |
| LOL!
Always amusing how much diversion there is around here by attacking me to avoid actual discussion if issues.
LOL!
Especially attacks by pretend Americans who won't even live in the US... | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | It's unbelievable that ... |
So there is just a claim that 'it just must be', rather than actual evidence. | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | Quote: | | Never mind that he US told the Israelis that we had no Navy ships in the area... |
This it total BS... Regardless of what the US may or may not have told the Israelis, the IDF claims it knew full well that USS Liberty was in the area based information from a morning recon flight. According to the IDF, a marker for Liberty was on kept on a plotting table until shortly before noon. Then the watch changed and the new crew removed the marker, so says the IDF. After that time, everybody everywhere in the IDF apparently had amnesia about Liberty ever being in the area. |
And other militaries never make such error's do they?
Which is why the US is never involved in friendly fire incidents, because of all the technologies we have that would make accidental misidentification impossible. | | | | | ©2002-2009 WarWithoutEnd.co.uk |
