| Author | Message | | Ken Halliwell | | Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:24 am Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | Quote: | | Who said anything about Lang referencing Gotcher? It's Lang's recall that supports Gotcher's and other's recall, not the other way around. |
And Gotcher was debunked directly. | You have yet to show me solid evidence that the email purportedly from Gotcher, on Cristol's website, is a true email message from James Ronald Gotcher. Until that can be achieved, the Gotcher debunking claim is an empty claim. | |  | | Cowboy | | Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:29 am Post subject: |
| | You have yet to show me/us that most of what is presented re the Liberty is original. | | | | Ken Halliwell | | Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:41 am Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | You have yet to show me/us that most of what is presented re the Liberty is original. | ??? Please restate. | | | | Ken Halliwell | | Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | You have yet to show me/us that most of what is presented re the Liberty is original. | Still not sure what you mean by "most" or the type of material you're concerned about.
Anyway, my primary reference is a copy of the NCOI record of proceeding and the associated exhibits -- including photographs take during and after the attack. Also, I use a copy of the NSA History Report.
For the IDF's side of the story, I use copies of the IDF's Ram Ron, Yerushalmi and History Reports.
Whether or not the contents of these documents truly represent their original contents, I don't know for certain. But they are widely accepted as true and valid references. | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: |
| While admittedly lack of a refuting comment is not actual proof of anything...
...Gotcher is apparently still alive 5 years later.
Has he ever refuted the email? | | | | Ken Halliwell | | Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: |
| | Quote: | While admittedly lack of a refuting comment is not actual proof of anything...
...Gotcher is apparently still alive 5 years later.
Has he ever refuted the email? | Not to my knowledge. In this respect, one could apply the legal concept of "affirmation by silence" -- assuming Gotcher is aware of the claim and in a position to refute.
Of course, Cristol has never refuted my claim about his book containing fake gun camera photos. So, what does that tell you?
In both cases, refuting does not prove much other than disagreement with a claim, unless proof beyond reasonable doubt is presented to dismiss the claim. | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:53 am Post subject: |
| I agree with your 'analysis', as would be consistent with my first sentence raising the topic.
Lack of disclaimer is not actual, solid evidence, but does lend weight if one assumes that Gotcher knows about the email etc.
Would we realistically tend to believe that Gotcher would be unaware?
As for the alleged fake gun photos, it is my understanding that Cristol did not take such photos, so exactly what would be be refuting? That he received the photo(s) from others? | | | | Ken Halliwell | | Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:16 am Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | As for the alleged fake gun photos, it is my understanding that Cristol did not take such photos, so exactly what would be be refuting? That he received the photo(s) from others? | Cristol claims he received the photos from the IDF, and he used them as evidence to support his claims about circumstances during the attack. Cristol provided no type of validation evidence (transmittal letter, etc.) that the photos are truly from the IDF and authentic. The only other public document where the photos appear is in the Thames film about the attack. Thames also claims the photos are from the IDF, but provides no validation evidence.
Several years ago, I inquired multiple times, via the Israel Ministry of Defense (IMOD), to challenge and validate Cristol's claim that the photos in his book came from the IDF, and that they are truly gun camera photo from the attack. All I received from IMOD was a promise to investigate and respond, but no further response came -- even after several follow-up inquires. Affirmation by silence...
At the least, Cristol, with all of his apparent contacts inside the IDF, should be able to pry a letter out of them to validate his claims about the gun camera photos' source and their authenticity. This, at least, would take him out of the picture as possibly being complicit in their use. After all, how could he have known the photos were phony? He simply accepted everything the IDF told and gave him as being true.
Maybe Cristol doesn't know or care about my gun camera photo claims. Who knows? Whatever the case, I have absolutely no doubt that the photos are fake -- the conditions depicted are not supported by post attack photographic evidence and NCOI testimony. | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | Of course, Cristol has never refuted my claim about his book containing fake gun camera photos. So, what does that tell you? |
Perhaps that he found flaws in your arguement... like I did in just a quick look. | | | | Ken Halliwell | | Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | Quote: | | Of course, Cristol has never refuted my claim about his book containing fake gun camera photos. So, what does that tell you? |
Perhaps that he found flaws in your arguement... like I did in just a quick look. | A look that overlooked everything but your preceived flaws.
BTW, I've undated the analysis image to soften the questioned claim. While preparing a more indepth analysis image, I came to realize that unless readers have a background in engineering drawing and rotation of 2D lines in 3D represented space, that it likely will not be meaningful to them. So, I took the simple approach of improving the display of the bow's apparent vertical orientation, softened the claim, and pointed out a few additional problems with the image. You'll probably still not find it convincing, regardess of its many faults; but that's not unexpected. | | | | | ©2002-2009 WarWithoutEnd.co.uk |
