| Author | Message | | Jefferson Davis | | Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:41 pm Post subject: Apologists please explain. Oh that's right you can't. |
| USS Liberty Apologists please explain.
Since Cowboy puts so much emphasis on the truncated NCOI testimony.
Capt William McConnagle awarded the MoH for heroism in the deliberate attack by Israel on the USS Liberty on 8 June, 1967 stated on page 31 of the NCOI:
| Quote: | | ."During the air attack, our normal Ensign was flying. Before the torpedo attack, a holiday size Ensign was hoisted." | , pg 31 NCOI
The US Navy 'Holiday flag' is 8 ft by 13 feet and used normally for cermonial condotion. It is nearly 30% larger than a casket flag.
Capt. McConnagle states further on the motor torpedo boats MTB's attempt of seeking "peace and tranquility" that Cowboywitz finds so enlightening.
| Quote: | | "When the boats reached an approximate range of 2,000 yards, the center boat of the formation was signaling to us. Also, at this range, it appeared that they were flying an Israeli flag. This was later verified." | , pg. 39, NCOI
The Captian was severely wounded and bleeding, loosing conscienceness possibly under the highest stress levels a command officer can endure, his unarmed ship attacked by air and ship, 70% of his crew killed and wounded, his ship listing and possibly sinking from a 40 foot torpedo hole inflicted on the unarmed USS Liberty in international waters.
Let's recap this for the slow witted Cowboy and his apologist ilk.
The Israeli boats are recognized by the Captain through binoculors (we assume as no mention is made of this fact) at a 1.2 miles away flying their ensign. According to the Israeli Naval history website, the old Durbar MT boats of this vintage flew a 2 ft by 3 ft. feet ensign or smaller. One can decide for oneself. Most of the ship's pictures shot by the Captain and ship's photographer are still classified TOP SECRET. Here is one of the torpedo boats and one can say with certainity that it's ensign would be terribly small at 2000 yards as the Captain testified.
There were three boats, three Captains, numerous creman, watchmen , etc, I'm sure binoculars were used by many and they could not spot the 8 foot and 13 foot "holiday flag" hoisted before the torpedo attack" nor the 5-8 foot hull number/ ship designation or the ship's name in their 40+ minute (attested in the Combat watch Officer's log) torpedo attack firing at life rafts and circling the ship numerous times?
Now tell us Cowboywitz......who is lying here?
And why isn't this one of a hundred reasons demonstrates why an open and honest investigation of the USS Liberty attack not be conducted and why one has been avoided for 40 years by your apologist ilk, Israel and the USG. | |  | | Cowboy | | Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:26 am Post subject: |
| | Quote: | Capt William McConnagle awarded the MoH for heroism in the deliberate attack by Israel on the USS Liberty on 8 June, 1967 stated on page 31 of the NCOI:
| Quote: | | ."During the air attack, our normal Ensign was flying. Before the torpedo attack, a holiday size Ensign was hoisted." | |
The Captain also testifies that there was considerable smoke that obscured visibility. Little surprise that you avoided that part of the testimony.
| Quote: | Capt. McConnagle states further on the motor torpedo boats MTB's attempt of seeking "peace and tranquility" that Cowboywitz finds so enlightening.
| Quote: | | "When the boats reached an approximate range of 2,000 yards, the center boat of the formation was signaling to us. Also, at this range, it appeared that they were flying an Israeli flag. This was later verified." | |
You have now verified that the Israelis were marked with Israeli insignia, which does little to support the claims that the attack was supposed to be a 'false flag' mission.
| Quote: | | The Israeli boats are recognized by the Captain through binoculors (we assume as no mention is made of this fact) at a 1.2 miles away flying their ensign. According to the Israeli Naval history website, the old Durbar MT boats of this vintage flew a 2 ft by 3 ft. feet ensign or smaller. One can decide for oneself. |
As the Captain testified under oath, there was considerable smoke around the Liberty, onscuring visibility. There was no such smoke around the torpedo boats.
Let's take a better look at the Captain's statement...
| Quote: | | Also, at this range, it appeared that they were flying an Israeli flag. This was later verified." |
If the Captain was certain about his sighting, he would have said "they were flying an Israeli flag", not "it appeared that they were flying an Israeli flag". And that is confirmed by the Captain's statement "This was later verified." If the Captain had been certain of his sighting, verification would not have been needed. US Navy Commanders acting as ship Captains are not uncertain, self-doubting people.
And your little rant does not explain the fact that as soon as the Liberty signaled its identity to the torpedo boats, they immediately broke off the attack and offered assistance.
Nor does it explain why, if the Israelis planned to sink the Liberty, they did not do so in minutes using appropriate weapons, rather than having an attack dragged out over the larger part of an hour, with the Liberty able to communicate by radio to the 6th fleet.
Nor does it explain the complete lack of a motive for Israel to attack a US Navy ship. | | | | Jefferson Davis | | Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
| | Cowboy wrote: | | "The Captain also testifies that there was considerable smoke that obscured visibility. Little surprise that you avoided that part of the testimony. " |
I quote the actual testimony with the page number. I do not put "apologist assumptions" or the "Israeli spin" on his testimony.
The Captain makes no testimony whatsoever of "testifies that there was considerable smoke that obscured visibility.". Little surprise you are incapable of telling the truth from stated sources. The Captain's only words stated on this subject and I quote:
| Capt. McConnagle wrote: | | "It was not possible to read the signals from the center torpedo boat because of the intermittent blocking of view by smoke and flames." | , pg 38, NCOI
Please note the word the word "intermittent smoke" is not the same as your AIPAC version of "testifies that there was considerable smoke that obscured visibility." that you quote as a fact unsupported by the actual testimony. Not that you place any value on truth or accuracy.
No one is surprised at you disloyal and feeble attempts to spin actual testimony into a pro-Israeli apologist viewpoint. You are what you are.
| Cowboy wrote: | | "If the Captain was certain about his sighting, he would have said "they were flying an Israeli flag", not "it appeared that they were flying an Israeli flag". And that is confirmed by the Captain's statement "This was later verified." If the Captain had been certain of his sighting, verification would not have been needed. " |
The Captain was also correct in his judgment, pretty remarkable for a wounded man verging on a black out, under attack and under extreme stress. As to the verification, he acted accordingly to that judgment. The verification was never needed as events proved him correct. It came later proving him right not that it was in question as you disloyally speculate for Israel's cover-up. Who the hell are you to say what he should have done or question him?. Your bias and disloyalty are showing as per usual in assuming what the Captain would have said, meant or perceived.
You also ignore that fact that he saw the Israeli MTB ensign much smaller and at 2000 yards yet ignore that three MTV Captains, their watchmen, and crew can never explain how they did not see the hull designations or a 8 x 13 holiday standard flying in the "intermittent smoke" in seven - thirteen knots winds or how they did not see the holiday flag or the 5-8 foot hull designations of the ship circling and machine gunning the USS Liberty for 40 minutes and only then did they approach the Captain with their signaling light "if they needed assistance" since their deliberate attempt to sink the Liberty had failed. 74 minutes of a combined air and naval attack is not "friendly fire", it can only be deliberate. It is not the USS Liberty's fault that it did not sink and lose all hands as you longingly seem to wish.
You avoid the obvious because you and the loyal apologists, Israel and the NCOI via USG cannot explain it away.
The 7 knot actual, 13 knot relative wind in relation to the ships speed reports recorded before the attack came from the ship's weather log that was never entered into court evidence in the NCOI. To do so would blow all the assumptions called "Findings of Fact" by that pre-determined COI regarding the "no flag, limp flag canard wrong.
As Ennes pointed out in his book
"7 - 10 knots [wind] is a "gentle breeze", produces large wavelets with crests that begin to break, and foam that is of glossy appearance, scattered white horses may be seen, leaves and twigs are in constant motion ashore, wind will extend a flag." - Knight's Modern Seamanshipp, a standard seaman's reference work.
| Cowboy wrote: | "Nor does it explain why, if the Israelis planned to sink the Liberty, they did not do so in minutes using appropriate weapons, rather than having an attack dragged out over the larger part of an hour, with the Liberty able to communicate by radio to the 6th fleet.
Nor does it explain the complete lack of a motive for Israel to attack a US Navy ship." |
Good questions, Further proof that an open , honest, non-politically motivated investigation has merit and is and has been warranted for 40 years. The NCOI never once addressed the issues and avoided any and controlled all testimony that would implicate or investigate Israeli duplicity and motivations. The Liberty NCOI obviously had a predetermined conclusion was already ordered. They were not searching for the truth and 13 crewman's testimony out of a 294 member crew conducted over two days only in a 4 day long COI clearly demonstrates it. The USS Cole, Greeneville, USS Stark Court of Inquiries took weeks and months. The NCOI never even mentions Israel until page 21 of the Court Record.
Finally since you cannot refute but ignore and fabricate. This quote is as true today as ever:
| Captain Richard F. Kiepfer, Medical Corps, US Navy (retired), USS Liberty Survivor wrote: | "Never before in the history of the United States Navy has a Navy Board of Inquiry ignored the testimony of American military eyewitnesses and taken, on faith, the word of their attackers."
-- Captain Richard F. Kiepfer, USS Liberty Survivor |
Keep apologizing, avoiding and smearing, lying like the apologist you are.. | | | | | ©2002-2009 WarWithoutEnd.co.uk |
