| Author | Message | | Jefferson Davis | | Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:12 am Post subject: |
| Lied about the operations into Laos and much more.
But why this man is the worst Sec/Def ever is that 59,000 US are dead and the manufactured lies about the Gulf of Tonkin incident. He knew it was manufactured and he abandoned the USS Liberty for Israel.
The Father and CPA of America's first lost war. It happened to Rumsfeld and soon to Bush.
Know wonder you admired him as a honest man. You never knew what it meant.
Robert McNamara indeed.  | |  | | Cowboy | | Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:38 am Post subject: |
| Proceedings of the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry, 18 June 1967
http://www.usslibertyinquiry.com/evidence/usreports/ncoi.pdf
Note the sworn testimony of the USS Liberty's Captain.
It includes....
The passes from Israeli aircraft earlier in the day were made at a range of 12-15 miles from the craft.
The Liberty's ensign was down from early in the air attack until just prior to the torpedo boat attacks, and there was too much smoke at the time of the torpedo boat attacks for the Liberty to clearly see the torpedo boats, meaning that there was likely too much smoke for the torpedo boats to see the newly raised ensign on the Liberty.
That the Captain believed that the attack was done in error.
That the Liberty fired on the Israeli torpedo boats, and the Captain stated that he believed that the Israelis at that time believed that they were under fire from the Liberty.
That after the torpedo struck the Liberty, the torpedo boats were in closer range and ceased the attack.
That the entire attack lasted about 20 minutes, not an hour or more. | | | | funglefoot | | Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: |
| Cowboy,
The US NCOI was held in closed session. That means in secret. Only about 15% of the testimony was heard. The Inquiry was severely abbreviated. The vast majority of the crew did not take the stand. The crew were ordered not to talk about the attack and if pressed they were to repeat a given strict formula of words.
The NCOI found as follows:
22. Groups of up to two and three jet and propeller
aircraft begin coming out from shore and circling ship at
altitudes ranging from 500 up to several thousand feet at
about eight hundred local on day of attack. Planes in
question were otherwise active over El Arish on Sinai
north coast which was plainly visible from the ship some
sixteen miles off shore.
Passes of Israeli aircraft were made at much closer range than 12-15 miles, but you do not mention the passes at 500 feet because you are only interested in propagating untruths.
The Captain is on record as saying:
"In many years, I have wanted to believe that the attack on the Liberty was pure error. It appears to me that it was not a pure case of mistaken identity. . . . I think it is about time that the State of Israel and the United States government provide the crew members of the Liberty, and the rest of the American people, the facts of what happened and why it came about that the Liberty was attacked 30 years ago today." Later, McGonagle remarked, "USS Liberty is the only US Navy ship attacked by a foreign nation, involving large loss of life...that has never been accorded a full Congressional hearing."
-- Captain William L. McGonagle, Commanding Officer, USS Liberty, speaking at Arlington National Cemetery June 8, 1997.
The Captain no longer shares the belief that the attack was done in error.
| Quote: | | That the Liberty fired on the Israeli torpedo boats, and the Captain stated that he believed that the Israelis at that time believed that they were under fire from the Liberty. |
Objection. The Captain cannot read the minds of the MTB crews.
Other crewmen who were not called to testify say that the attack lasted longer than 20 minutes, about 75 minutes. As these men were not called the duration of the attack must remain uncertain. The Captain was wounded and his recollection of time may have been incorrect.
But where was the Liberty's double? There is no record of the El Quseir being sighted on the day of the attack or on any other day. But the moment the Israelis needed an alibi she appeared by magic, as if dropped from the heavens, to provide the Israelis with a defense of 'mistaken identity'.
But this did not avail the Israelis for mistaken identity is a mistake of fact which does not negate mens rea, or the guilty mind. Israel knew that the Liberty was in the area yet proceeded with a deadly attack without first checking the identity of the target and without first checking the position of the Liberty. Israel was wilfully blind to the possibility that they were attacking the Liberty. This constitutes criminal recklessness and must mean, under the law, that Israel was guilty of murder, malicious wounding and destruction of property. Israel is guilty as charged. Her defense is invalid. You have lost Cowboy. I have won.
But this is not a fully satisfactory outcome. I believe that Israel knowingly and deliberately targetted and destroyed the Liberty because she was a spy ship within listening distance of critical Israeli communications. Israel knew exactly what they were doing. They were eliminating a listening post. The fact that she was the ship of an ally meant nothing to her.
Other people say that the plan was to sink the Liberty with all hands and blame it on the Egyptians thus giving America an excuse to enter the war on the side of the Israelis. A possiblity which cannot be dismissed offhand.
LBJ's frantic recall of the rescue aircraft supports this theory.
Numerous other theories abound. Some of them may well be true. What is certain is there is no shortage of themes on motive. But then the proof of motive is only the cherry on the top, it is not necessary to prove motive to establish guilt. But guilt has already been established with the dismissal of mistaken identity. But I, we, are seeking a different kind of guilt. We seek a conviction for premeditated murder with malicious intent. And we will succeed. | | | | funglefoot | | Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:07 pm Post subject: |
| | .............................................................................................................. | | | | funglefoot | | Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:28 am Post subject: |
| No reply... There seems no point in dialling again. The defense are clearly out to lunch. Actually out to pasture seems a more apt phrase. Cowboy has lost his spurs. Ilana has turned permanent farmer specializing in bullshit. HB never had the balls for the fight. They are collectively and individually a wash out.
There remains however a final chapter in this saga. The prosecution would still like to prove malicious intent. This is the highest degree of guilt. We have proved that Israel was criminally reckless and willfully blind but malicious intent signifies that Israel intended what she did, that she knew her target was American, and that she acted with evil intent to destroy the Liberty as a spy ship to safeguard her wartime secrets. We may have to wait for further evidence in the form of sworn depositions by former NSA men to the effect that the IAF pilots were fully aware of the Liberty's nationality and were ordered to attack her nevertheless. It is the 40th anniversary this year and it is not inconceivable that such a 'birthday present' may be offered. | | | | funglefoot | | Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: |
| | cowgoebbels wrote: | C.I.A. report June 13, 1967 no malice; attack a mistake
Report by Clark Clifford July 18, 1967 no evidence ship was known to be American
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence 1979/1981 no merit to claims attack was intentional
National Security Agency 1981 Mistaken identity
House Armed Services Cmtee 1991/1992 No support for claims attack was intentiona | l
ACCORDING TO REAR ADMIRAL MERLIN STARING, A FORMER JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL OF THE US NAVY NONE OF THE ABOVE IS A US GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATION INTO THE ATTACK ON THE LIBERTY.
THE ADMIRAL SAYS..."WE WERE VERY PLEASED TO, FINALLY TO HAVE THE DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY RESPONDING TO THE CONGRESS AND SAYING THE ONLY US GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATION OF THE LIBERTY ATTACK WAS THE US NAVY COURT OF INQUIRY IN 1967".
THE DEPT OF THE NAVY CONFIRMED [MARCH 2005] TO ROB SIMMONDS, A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, THAT THE ONLY INVESTIGATION INTO THE USS LIBERTY ATTACK WAS CONDUCTED BY THE NAVY COURT OF INQUIRY.
Watch WING TV - ISRAEL'S DELIBERATE ATTACK ON THE U.S.S. LIBERTY
http://69.28.73.17/documentaries.html | | | | | ©2002-2009 WarWithoutEnd.co.uk |
