| Author | Message | | Diceros | | Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:34 pm Post subject: |
| | Quote: | Certainly not, to do so would be to recognise him. I don't know who 'my' alleged MEP is, I have no interest in that matter. I understand I am obliged by the current rules of the society I live in to accept the existence of the EC. But nobody has ever discussed the EU with me or asked my opinion on it. Nevertheless, my implied consent has been misappropriated and used to empower the EU. So the discussion I want is with my parliament that claims to represent me. I want to know why it has misrepresented me as part of a majority that in reality does not consent to British involvement in the EU project. If my MEP ever wandered across my path I would make a citizen's arrest and accuse him of treason.
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What a pity that you apparantly do not recognize the voice of the majority when they democratically elected the MEP for your region.
FWIW - I've in the past made my views known to our former MEP . I've not yet met our NEW MEP and inspite of not voteing for him, I wont hesitate in talking to him when I've got anything to complain abt.- be it the shape of bananas / the colour-size of Kippers/ carrots, wotever.
IMO - its daft when I hear people bitching + complaining when they cant be bothered to vote in EU Elections and refuse approaching + discuss their gripes with their Parliamentary representatives.
cheers. | |  | | Diceros | | Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
| | Quote: | If my MEP ever wandered across my path I would make a citizen's arrest and accuse him of treason.
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Hmmmm - That'll be very interesting . I'd like to be around to see/hear the final outcome.
Hahaha -
cheers. | | | | Anglo Thug | | Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:46 pm Post subject: |
| The majority you speak of does not exist, nor does the democratic process.
A society attains legitimacy through the consent of its members. You cannot be a member of a society unless you consent to being a member. This consent can be offered freely or coerced by a variety of means such as force or deception or manipulation of ignorance, but the consent must exist in some form or you are not part of the society in question. A hierarchical society with democratic terms and conditions governing the appointment of its senior, or governing, membership uses coercion to force the freely given consent of the majority on the minority. It then uses that consent to enact and enforce a stream of contracts between the governing membership and the governed.
There has been no majority consent in this nation for a long time now. All talk of democracy is highly misleading given the actual statistics that underpin the alleged legitimacy of the governing membership. But, I suppose, we all accept the illegitimacy of our government as a price paid in return for (they claim) stability, prosperity and security.
However, if the society we accept (warts and all) is to be replaced by another society, in this case the EU, it's totally unreasonable to suggest the consent we have granted or been coerced into providing can apply to this new society. The new society is a brand new proposition and our consent to be members should be freshly sought. For example, if you join the Labour Party would you find it reasonable to have a de facto membership of the Communist Party assigned to you? If the Labour Party informed you after you had joined that they would now be signing you up to the Communist Party, would you demand at least a discussion on the proposed course of action? And would you accept your new Communist Party membership in the absence of such a discussion? You'd have to be a communist or a sheep to hold your tongue.
Maybe you would join the Conservative Party in protest? What if the Conservative Party then wrote to you congratulating you on your new Communist Party membership they had just arranged on your behalf? Join the Liberals then? No luck there either. UKIP? By joining UKIP does it mean you will not be subject to EU legislation? So how do you actually decline membership of this communist society? You cannot. Going back to the statistics, there is no majority that has consented to EU membership. If consent is compulsory then it cannot be consent, instead it is compliance which is a different thing. If there is no majority there is no democracy. If there is no consent there is no society. So presenting MEPs as a fait accompli and in defiance of the requirements for legitimacy is simply another exercise in coercion.
I will discuss my membership of this new society BEFORE asking my new EU house master for a lollipop, thanks. He or she has no legitimacy at all until the majority consent to granting that legitimacy. His very existence is a reference to coercion and anti-democratic abuse. His mission is to make redundant the sovereignty of Britain and replace it with a sovereign Europe. He is openly practising treason.
If I attempted a citizens arrest the people in the field would laugh and call me mad. The treasonous plotter would shrug and walk away. I would most likely be arrested for breaching some contractual obligation or another manufactured without my consent. Does that mean I should condone treason or turn a blind eye to it?
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Please sign the petition to prosecute War Criminal Tony Blair | | | | Diceros | | Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: |
| | Quote: | Does that mean I should condone treason or turn a blind eye to it?
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Far be it for me to tell you what to do, but IMO I would'nt see it as anyone being guilty of treason (yet) - without further evidence apart from an accusation, or me having to turn a blind eye.
I'll try facing - REALITY - of the day + put my views to whoever is in a position to act upon it or give me a satifactory explanation.
Alternatively I'll get on a soap box, at Hyde Park Corner/ start a blog and see how much support I get from my fellow countrymen..
cheers. | | | | Jefferson Davis | | Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: |
| | Quote: | Far be it for me to tell you what to do, but IMO I would'nt see it as anyone being guilty of treason (yet) - without further evidence apart from an accusation, or me having to turn a blind eye.
I'll try facing - REALITY - of the day + put my views to whoever is in a position to act upon it or give me a satifactory explanation.
Alternatively I'll get on a soap box, at Hyde Park Corner/ start a blog and see how much support I get from my fellow countrymen..
cheers. |
Diceros: how does complacent, apathetic, distracted herd acceptance grant legitimacy? You believe in government, that's your bill of fair...fine.
But tyranny of the majority is just as wrong as tyranny of the few. And let's face facts, permanent government officials are the most duplicitous, disingenuous non-productive, lazy, most costly, self serving, burdensome individuals on planet Earth.
Truth be told IMHO any extension or additional layer of government (Lisbon) into the public or private life is sheer folly. The reality and history pretty much demonstrates with damn few exceptions that everything the government incorporates, manages, administers, oversees becomes uncountable and corruptible and turns to bureaucratic shit.
NATO. an extension of government views was inaugurated as a "self defense" alliance against the Soviet Union and whose threats fell in 1989. Did we disband it? Nope, we're knocking on a historical xenophobic paranoid Russian door in minimal provocation. The North Atlantic Alliance is now in Afghanistan. where there is no Atlantic Ocean supposedly doing good while a United Nations worries and frets and writes stern letters.
A Lisbon mandated EU is just another turd sitting next to the existing mound of crap that still won't flush.
Government's first and primary duty is to itself. This isn't some political science statement but a fact. And increasing the centralization and undemocratic process of furthering it to the few to muddle and monkey with is beyond some redundancy. I have yet to hear one solid argument that demonstrates how Poland or Germany should have any say into the matters of what goes on in England. Not one. But you think allowing such a privilege is a benefit and boon to your own country? You can't drum a up a crowd at Hyde Park for legitimacy of your view but it's OK for the Polands, Czechs' Hyde Park groupies is deserving of interposing itself into your life? And for whose real benefit?
Government works best when it does the least with the fewest and Lisbon is just another layer of icing on a already mouldy cake. But enjoy, the world needs sheep. | | | | Von Curtis | | Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:18 am Post subject: WHAT ARE YOU DICE?? |
| | 'the world needs sheep.' I don't think Dice is a sheep - he is more like a cunning wolf , probably a marxist, zionist, fabian, communist or maybe one of these phony christians - he knows exactly what is going on and he loves it and wants more of it. He is probably one of the faithful that wants global world government to keep Israel and the west running the world by corporate wars and terrorism . | | | | Diceros | | Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: |
| [['the world needs sheep.' I don't think Dice is a sheep - he is more like a cunning wolf , probably a marxist, zionist, fabian, communist or maybe one of these phony christians - he knows exactly what is going on and he loves it and wants more of it. He is probably one of the faithful that wants global world government to keep Israel and the west running the world by corporate wars and terrorism .]]
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V C - I can be , whatever you want me to be.
But I hope our discussion need not revolve abt me, need it. ?
I'm not interested who or what you are, I'm interested in your thoughts, opinions , what you've got to say.
cheers. | | | | Diceros | | Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:27 pm Post subject: |
| | Quote: | Diceros: how does complacent, apathetic, distracted herd acceptance grant legitimacy? You believe in government, that's your bill of fair...fine.
But tyranny of the majority is just as wrong as tyranny of the few. And let's face facts, permanent government officials are the most duplicitous, disingenuous non-productive, lazy, most costly, self serving, burdensome individuals on planet Earth.
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I believe in Law + Order if you dont, then that's your bill of fair.....
Then dont call the cops when you wallet is stolen onthe subway at gun/knife point by a bunch of junkees, or your bank account is emptied by some fraudster.
Let's also face the fact, that no system is perfect , but for all its faults, our + your country's present system is a vast improvement on anarchy. Would you prefer to live under conditions of NO GOVERNMENT - like the failed state of Somalia. ? If so then that's also yr choice, and you know where to go.
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| Quote: | | But enjoy, the world needs sheep. |
It sure does. I lurve Lamb chops, while others can have the wool for caps to keep their woolly thoughts going.
Cheers. | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: |
| | "Our" system of government is the absolute worst... except for all the others. | | | | funglefoot | | Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject: |
| "The European Union is essential to the success of Britain and a Britain fully engaged in Europe is essential to the success of the European Union."
- Prime Minister Gordon Brown
Nice soundbite, and that is as far as it goes. No explanation or rationalisation. We have become conditioned to think in sound bites without involving the thought processes. That is the real danger to our democracy. | | | | | ©2002-2009 WarWithoutEnd.co.uk |
