| Author | Message | | gchq | | Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:19 am Post subject: No wreckage found from doomed Air France plane |
| No wreckage found from doomed Air France plane
Associated Press
06 Jun 2009
Days after Air France Flight 447 vanished, an intensive international effort has failed to recover any confirmed wreckage and concern grew Friday about whether searchers were even looking in the right place.
Air France, meanwhile, told its pilots in a memo obtained by The Associated Press that it is replacing instruments that affect flight speed in all its bigger jets. Investigators have focused on the equipment's possible role in the disaster.
Brazilian officials first reported Tuesday that military pilots had spotted wreckage from Flight 447 scattered across the ocean's surface, but pieces pulled out Thursday turned out to be unrelated to the plane.
Air Force Brig. Gen. Ramon Cardoso insisted Friday that at least some of the debris spotted from the air — an airplane seat, a slick of kerosene and other pieces — are from the plane that vanished Sunday with 228 people on board. The Brazilian air force also distributed images pinpointing where the material was found.
"This is the material that we've seen that really was part of the plane," Cardoso said.
But officials said extremely poor visibility has hampered efforts to guide ships to the spot where the debris was sighted, and France's Transportation Minister Dominique Bussereau said his own country's searchers have found no signs of the Airbus A330.
"French authorities have been saying for several days that we have to be extremely prudent," Bussereau told France's RTL radio. "Our planes and naval ships have seen nothing."
A French Defense Ministry official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter, also questioned the Brazilian claims, saying French teams "cannot precisely confirm the zone where the plane went down."
A statement issued jointly by Brazil's Air Force and Navy said that to "avoid errors in interpretation" from now on any debris recovered in the area will only be divulged after being "positively identified" by Air France as coming from the ill-fated flight.
Aviation officials have said the crash investigation is increasingly focused on whether external instruments may have iced over, confusing speed sensors and leading computers to set the plane's speed too fast or slow — a potentially deadly mistake in severe turbulence.
Airbus has said the French agency investigating the crash found the doomed flight received inconsistent airspeed readings by different instruments as it struggled with severe turbulence in a massive thunderstorm.
The Air France memo says the company will finish replacing the instruments — known as Pitot tubes — in "coming weeks." It does not say when the replacement process started and the company declined to comment on the advisory, saying it was meant for pilots only.
The L-shaped metal Pitot tubes jut from the wing or fuselage of a plane, and are heated to prevent icing. The pressure of air entering the tubes lets sensors measure the speed and angle of flight.
An iced-over, blocked or malfunctioning Pitot tube could cause an airspeed sensor to fail, and lead the computer controlling the plane to accelerate or decelerate in a potentially dangerous fashion.
Questions about speed sensors are only one of many factors investigators are considering. Automatic transmissions from the plane showed a chain of computer system failures that indicate the plane broke apart in midair.
The cause may be hidden on "black box" voice and data recorders that could lie miles deep on the ocean floor.
But with satellites blocked by thick clouds and heavy rain reducing visibility in an ocean full of floating garbage, searchers have so far been unable to find any confirmed wreckage from the plane.
Peter Goelz, a former managing director of the National Transportation Safety Board, said that severely limits the investigation.
"Until you have the piece of debris on board and it is conclusively identified as coming from the doomed aircraft, everything is speculation," Goelz said. "The searchers are back to square one with only a best guess at where to start their search for the recorders."
Goelz said searchers need to quickly target an area and drop listening devices into the ocean in hopes of picking up the recorders' signals, which may only continue for 30 days.
French officials have warned the black boxes — and the answer to why the jet crashed — may never be found.
On Thursday, European plane maker Airbus sent an advisory to all operators of the A330 reminding them of how to handle the plane in conditions similar to those experienced by Flight 447.
Goelz said that advisory and the Air France memo about replacing flight-speed instruments "certainly raises questions about whether the Pitot tubes, which are critical to the pilot's understanding of what's going on, were operating effectively."
Meteorologists say the Air France jet entered an unusual storm with 100 mph updrafts that created turbulence while sucking water up from the ocean to high altitude, where it quickly froze in minus-40 degree temperatures.
France is sending a submarine to the area to try to detect signals from the black boxes, said military spokesman Christophe Prazuck. The Emeraude will arrive next week, he said.
Brazil's Air Force was flying relatives of victims to the search command post in the northeastern city of Recife Friday to tour the operation and ask questions. Recife has a large air force base where debris and any human remains would be brought.
Greg Keller reported from Paris. Bradley Brooks in Rio de Janeiro; Alan Clendenning in Sao Paulo; Emma Vandore, Laurence Joan-Grange, Jamey Keaten and Philippe Sotto in Paris; Daniel Woolls in Madrid; and Slobodan Lekic in Modena, Italy, also contributed to this report.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
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Tony Blair - War Criminal
http://www.petitiononline.com/BWCF/petition.html | |  | | Von Curtis | | Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:50 am Post subject: |
| Air France 447 - Why are military submarines keeping location of AF-447 Secret ?
http://www.911oz.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=25106#post25106
'Surely the Hi-tech Submarines of America, China, Russia, Germany, England,
could have located the ping from the AF-447 "black-box" flight recorder by now. So what is the big secret ?
Something smells fishy...
The Authorities say that depressurisation occurred and now they are saying that something else was the cause.... faulty air speed indicator...
not very professional.... who are these people trying to fool .....' | | | | Anglo Thug | | Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: |
| | Cowboy wrote: | | Not good news for Airbus... |
Our sick little friend sees a business opportunity in the deaths of over 200 human beings. Here's one autopilot that's never disengaged.
_________________
Please sign the petition to prosecute War Criminal Tony Blair | | | | DanielDives | | Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: |
| Hi AT,
Where you see coffins, our resident evil sees $$.
Where you see grieving loved ones, our resident evil sees a lot of p$ychological after care.
It takes about a week for bodies to become floaters [unless the plane is still intact]. Let's hope for the families' sake they'll find something soon. | | | | gchq | | Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:32 pm Post subject: Airbus noted speed data problems before crash |
| Airbus noted speed data problems before crash
Reuters
06 Jun 2009
Airbus had detected faulty speed readings on its A330 jets ahead of last week's crash of an Air France (AIRF.PA) airliner, and had advised clients to replace a part, French air investigators said on Saturday.
But the head of France's air accident agency (BEA) said it was too soon to say if problems with speed sensors were in any way responsible for the disaster over the Atlantic Ocean, which cost the lives of all 228 passengers and crew.
"Some of the sensors (on the A330) were earmarked to be changed ... but that does not mean that without these replacement parts, the (Air France) plane would have been defective," said BEA chief Paul Louis Arslanian.
Airbus, maker of the A330 jet that crashed on Monday, also issued a second advisory late on Thursday that pilots should follow standard procedures -- to maintain flight speed and angle -- if they thought their speed indicators were faulty.
"Problems had been detected (on A330s) and we are studying them," said Arslanian, adding the plane was safe to fly.
Airbus (EAD.PA) said it had no immediate comment.
The Air France A330-200 was en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris when it suffered a rapid succession of technical problems after hitting heavy turbulence over the Atlantic.
Search crews have failed to recover any wreckage so far and French and Brazilian aircrews are scouring a stretch of ocean some 1,100 km (680 miles) northeast of Brazil's coast where experts believe the plane might have come down.
Arslanian said the doomed Air France plane sent a series of 24 automated messages between 0210 GMT and 0214 GMT indicatating a series of system failures before it vanished.
In the middle of this stream of data was one message showing inconsistent speed readings from the A330's sensors.
"You have a plane which transmitted a message, and it is not an exceptional or unheard of message, particulary on the A330, which detected incoherent speed readings," Arslanian said.
MOUNTAINOUS SEABED
Investigators are anxious to locate the plane's flight recorders to try and gleen more information on what went wrong, but are not optimistic that the black boxes will be retreived.
"This is what we are looking for in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean," Arslanian said, holding up a small, cylindrical canister which is attached to the flight recorders and designed to send homing signals for up to 30 days.
"We have absolutely no guarantee that it is still attached to the recorders. They can get detached," he said.
The search zone is a relatively uncharted patch of ocean which has deep ravines and a fine, muddy sediment.
France is sending a nuclear-powered submarine to try to locate the two flight recorders, which could be at a depth of anywhere between 864 and 4,000 metres (2,835-13,120 ft).
Shifting currents meant that in a worst case scenario searchers would have to be right above the beacon to hear it.
Aviation analysts have speculated that a combination of severe turbulence and mechanical problems caused the crash.
Meterological experts have said the plane did cross a storm zone, but that it did not pose an apparent threat.
"Nothing would indicate (that the plane) hit a storm mass of exceptional intensity," Alain Ratier, deputy head of Meteo France told a news conference on Saturday. (Writing by Crispian Balmer; Editing by Jon Hemming)
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Tony Blair - War Criminal
http://www.petitiononline.com/BWCF/petition.html | | | | gchq | | Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: Mountain range as big as Alps discovered under Antarctic ice |
| Mountain range as big as Alps discovered under Antarctic ice
The Telegraph
04 Jun 2009
A vast mountain range, the size of the Alps and named the Gamburtsev range, has been discovered two miles under the world's largest ice sheet in the Antarctic.
Scientists have discovered a massive mountain range resembling the
French Alps buried a staggering 4km under the world's largest ice sheet
Photo: MASONS NEWS SERVICE
The mountains have been mapped in detail for the first time by bouncing radar signals off their hidden surface and observing how long they took to return. The highest peak was found to be 2,434m (7,985ft) above sea level, about twice the height of Ben Nevis.
Researchers flew aircraft 75,000 miles over six weeks braving average temperatures of -22F (-30) Celsius charting the ancient Gamburtsev range, it was reported in Nature.
They predicted a flat plateaux but instead found a range similar in height and shape to the Alps - with massive peaks as high as Mount Blanc and deep valleys.
Water, turned to liquid due to the pressure of East Antarctic Ice Sheet above, could be seen in rivers and lakes nestled in valleys.
One lake, named Vostok, was an incredible 187 mile (300km) long making it similar in size to North American Great Lake, Lake Ontario.
Scientists hope the findings will aid predictions about the effects of climate change on ice sheets and challenge long-held views that the ice sheet formed over millions of years.
The new research suggests they formed in a fraction of the time and the area could have been ice free at some points in history.
This means any rapid fluctuation in global temperature could have a much faster effect on the formation of ice sheets than previously thought.
The research was conducted by the Antarctica's Gamburstev Province (AGAP) - a team of scientists, engineers, pilots and support staff from seven nations.
They used state of the art radar, aeromagnetic and gravity sensors to map 386,000sq miles (1,000,000sq km) of the Gamburtsev range 2.5 miles (4km) under the East Antarctic Ice Sheet.
Dr Fausto Ferraccioli, a geophysicist at the British Antarctic Survey, led the UK science effort.
"We now know that not only are the mountains the size of the European Alps but they also have similar peaks and valleys," he said.
"And this adds even more mystery about how the vast East Antarctic Ice Sheet formed. If the ice sheet grew slowly then we would expect to see the mountains eroded into a plateau shape. But the evidence now suggests it formed quickly.
"Our big challenge now is to dive into the data to get a better understanding of what happened. Our findings are like the first page of a big book."
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Tony Blair - War Criminal
http://www.petitiononline.com/BWCF/petition.html | | | | DanielDives | | | | gchq | | Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: RPT-Timeline of Airbus speed data problems |
| RPT-Timeline of Airbus speed data problems
Reuters
07 Jun 2009
Air France was at odds with Airbus over the right way to respond to iced-up sensors affecting airspeed readings at high altitude, a potential problem for investigation in the crash of an A330 jet last week, according to the airline.
Here is a timeline of the search for a solution as set out by Air France. Airbus was not immediately available to comment.
Meanwhile regulatory filings show that flawed airspeed readings were causing concern as early as 2001.
Sept. 2007
----------
According to Air France, Airbus recommends operators of its short/medium-range A320 family change speed sensors, known as pitot probes, due to malfunctions. The optional recommendation also applies to long-haul aircraft with the same sensors.
Air France applies the recommendation to those A320s that have experienced a problem, but not to its A330/340 fleet.
May 2008
--------
Air France notices temporary loss of airspeed data lasting several minutes during cruise on A330/340 jets due to icing.
Air France presses Airbus for a solution. According to the airline, Airbus says using the same sensors recommended for the smaller A320 would not solve the problems witnessed at cruise height and reiterates established operating procedures.
Q1 2009
-------
Laboratory tests show the new sensor could after all reduce the icing problem at high altitude, according to Air France. It says Airbus then proposes an in-flight test to verify this.
April 27
--------
Air France decides not to wait for the test and starts installing new sensors on its 16 A330s and 19 A340s.
June 1
------
Flight 447 disappears in the Atlantic during a storm.
June 4
------
Airbus says it has issued advisory reminding crews of the procedures to follow in the absence of reliable airspeed.
June 5
------
France's BEA says the investigation focuses on the storm and evidence of conflicting airspeed data but rules nothing out.
June 6
------
BEA says the A330 sent out 24 error messages including one on airspeed discrepancies simliar to incidents seen on related aircraft, but says it is too early to speculate on the cause.
Airbus confirms it had recommended changing A330 speed sensors before the crash but does not say whether this refers to the Sept. 2007 note mentioned by Air France. A spokesman says this was a performance upgrade, not a mandatory safety measure.
Air France announces it has accelerated the replacement programme. It does not say whether the crashed A330 had new sensors nor what proportionate of its fleet has been upgraded.
(Reporting by Tim Hepher; editing by Michael Roddy)
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Tony Blair - War Criminal
http://www.petitiononline.com/BWCF/petition.html | | | | gchq | | Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: Air France Union Demands A330 Upgrades Before Flights |
| Air France Union Demands A330 Upgrades Before Flights
Bloomberg
08 Jun 2009
An Air France pilot union said it wants members to refuse to fly the carrier’s Airbus SAS A330 and A340 aircraft unless two of the three speed sensors on each plane are replaced.
Christophe Pesenti, an official at Alter, which represents 12 percent of Air France’s pilots, said by telephone that all older sensors should eventually be replaced. Brigitte Barrand, a spokeswoman at the Paris-based airline, declined to comment on the demands.
The union was responding to French investigators’ comments that an Air France A330 that crashed into the Atlantic Ocean on June 1 sent “inconsistent” speed data that may have triggered a chain of events leading to the accident. The crash killed the 228 people aboard the plane.
Air France has about a half dozen unions for its pilots. The biggest is SNPL-ALPA, which represents almost 50 percent of the pilots. That union hasn’t made any recommendation yet, a spokesman said.
To contact the reporters on this story: Andrea Rothman in Toulouse, France, at aerothman@bloomberg.net; Laurence Frost in Paris at lfrost@bloomberg.net
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Tony Blair - War Criminal
http://www.petitiononline.com/BWCF/petition.html | | | | ktholcombe | | Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject: |
| The Telegraph
Air France crash: 'terrorist suspects' on flight
Two passengers with names that have been linked to Islamist terrorism were on the Air France flight that crashed into the Atlantic, killing all 228 people on board.
By Peter Allen in Paris
Published: 8:42PM BST 10 Jun 2009
Flight 447 crashed en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris on May 31. While it is certain the aeroplane suffered computer malfunctions, officials have not ruled out terrorism.
The French secret service has established that two passengers had names that appear on classified French documents listing people suspected to be security threats.
Agents are trying to confirm the dates of birth and family connections of the two passengers. A source in the security service said it was possible the name similarities were a "macabre coincidence".
Brazilian and French search crews have recovered another 13 bodies from a spot in the Atlantic Ocean where the Air France jet came down over a week ago.
A total of 41 bodies have so far been recovered from the zone 700 miles off Brazil's northeast coast, Lieutenant Colonel Ramon Cardoso, the head of Brazilian air traffic control, said.
Sixteen of the bodies have been taken to the nearest point on land, Brazil's archipelago of Fernando de Noronha, and the other 25 were on their way there, Lt Col Cardoso said.
After being inspected, photographed and catalogued on those islands, they were to be flown to the mainland coastal city of Recife for identification by forensic teams.
Brazilian and French officials are using DNA samples from relatives and dental records to identify the remains.
Brazilian navy ships and a French frigate were to continue to scour the crash zone for more bodies and debris.
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