| Author | Message | | Fishy | | Posted: Fri May 31, 2002 4:07 am Post subject: If there are women and children-kill them |
| FRESH MEMORIES OF WAR
By KANDEA MOSLEY, Ithaca Journal, 5/25/02
http://www.theithacajournal.com/news/stories/20020525/topstories/380284.html
For Army Private Matt Guckenheimer, who recently returned home to Tompkins
County after two missions in Eastern Afghanistan, processing these memories
and readjusting to American life has just begun.
Guckenheimer, who helped clear the L-shaped valley near the border of
Pakistan whose twists and turns are burned into his memory, explained the
nature of his company's mission. In doing so, he spoke candidly about the
reality of war.
In an April interview with The Ithaca Journal at his family's Cayuga
Heights home, Guckenheimer, 22, shared his experiences during Operation
Anaconda. He was sent on March 6 in a company of more than 100 soldiers to
participate in the largest U.S.-led ground engagement in Eastern Afghanistan.
"We were told there were no friendly forces," said Guckenheimer, an
assistant gunner with the 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum. "If there
was anybody there, they were the enemy. We were told specifically that if there were women and children to kill them..." | |  | | Libby | | Posted: Fri May 31, 2002 9:21 am Post subject: |
| | Quote: | "We were told there were no friendly forces," said Guckenheimer, an assistant gunner with the 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum. "If there
was anybody there, they were the enemy. We were told specifically that if there were women and children to kill them..." |
Good Morning Fishy,
For all my oppostion towards this war, it doesn't sit well with
me, that this young man was told specifically to kill women
and children. I will eat my words if this is proven too be true,
but, I would want at least other soliders in his division to
come forward and confirm his story, before I pass judgement
that this order was given.
This is the sort of 'rumor' that we in the Anti-War camp could
use to further our cause. but a question..something this big
and he chooses to tell his story to his local paper and not one
that would circulate nationwide, that would have a greater
impact?
Nope..sorry..it just doesn't wash. | | | | Fishy | | Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2002 10:11 pm Post subject: |
| | Libby wrote: | | Quote: | "We were told there were no friendly forces," said Guckenheimer, an assistant gunner with the 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum. "If there
was anybody there, they were the enemy. We were told specifically that if there were women and children to kill them..." |
Good Morning Fishy,
For all my oppostion towards this war, it doesn't sit well with
me, that this young man was told specifically to kill women
and children. I will eat my words if this is proven too be true,
but, I would want at least other soliders in his division to
come forward and confirm his story, before I pass judgement
that this order was given.
This is the sort of 'rumor' that we in the Anti-War camp could
use to further our cause. but a question..something this big
and he chooses to tell his story to his local paper and not one
that would circulate nationwide, that would have a greater
impact?
Nope..sorry..it just doesn't wash. |
The article is in my Congressman's hands, Libby. He said pretty much the same thing you did. If this were all true, wouldn't it have appeared in any of the mainstream news????? Even on Pacifica networks? There hasn't been any mention of it there either. He's going to look into it and see if Ithaca Journal is even an actual publication, and if so, he's going to see if this soldier really exists. If so, he'll contact him. He'll get to the bottom of it, he was pissed off when he read it. Hopefully I'll have some kind of an answer in the next week or so. | | | | Saint | | Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2002 11:37 pm Post subject: |
| | Fishy wrote: | | Libby wrote: | | Quote: | "We were told there were no friendly forces," said Guckenheimer, an assistant gunner with the 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum. "If there
was anybody there, they were the enemy. We were told specifically that if there were women and children to kill them..." |
Good Morning Fishy,
For all my oppostion towards this war, it doesn't sit well with
me, that this young man was told specifically to kill women
and children. I will eat my words if this is proven too be true,
but, I would want at least other soliders in his division to
come forward and confirm his story, before I pass judgement
that this order was given.
This is the sort of 'rumor' that we in the Anti-War camp could
use to further our cause. but a question..something this big
and he chooses to tell his story to his local paper and not one
that would circulate nationwide, that would have a greater
impact?
Nope..sorry..it just doesn't wash. |
The article is in my Congressman's hands, Libby. He said pretty much the same thing you did. If this were all true, wouldn't it have appeared in any of the mainstream news????? Even on Pacifica networks? There hasn't been any mention of it there either. He's going to look into it and see if Ithaca Journal is even an actual publication, and if so, he's going to see if this soldier really exists. If so, he'll contact him. He'll get to the bottom of it, he was pissed off when he read it. Hopefully I'll have some kind of an answer in the next week or so. |
Hello,
I've contacted about 100 newspapers, television news networks and investigative journalists in the US, most European countries, Asia and the Middle East regarding the comments of Private Guckenheimer, as yet no one has touched it and I've only a hand full contact me back. I emailed The Ithaca Journal, see email below, their reply is there also:
From: TheSaintCSB@###### [mailto:TheSaintCSB@######]
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 7:25 AM
To: Bohrer, Dave
Subject: (no subject)
Dear Sir,
I wish to draw to your attention some comments that I feel warrant further investigation, or explanation at least. The comments were made by US Army Private Matt Guckenheimer, an assistant gunner with the 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum, in an interview with The Ithaca Journal in April of this year regarding his participation and experiences in the US-led "Operation Anaconda" in Afghanistan. This is a quote from The Ithaca Journal of May 25th 2002:
(http://www.theithacajournal.com/news/stories/20020525/topstories/380284.html)
"In an April interview with The Ithaca Journal at his family's Cayuga Heights home, Guckenheimer, 22, shared his experiences during Operation Anaconda. He was sent on March 6 in a company of more than 100 soldiers to participate in the largest U.S.-led ground engagement in Eastern Afghanistan.
"We were told there were no friendly forces," said Guckenheimer, an assistant gunner with the 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum. "If there was anybody there, they were the enemy. We were told specifically that if there were women and children to kill them."" (my underlining)
Rather shocking comments in my opinion, I think most would agree. Is this a reporting error or is that a direct quote? Why was this soldier told to specifically to kill women and children?
If the words of this soldier are the truth, if he was quoted correctly, then there are some very serious issues that need to be addressed, raised with the relevant authorities and investigated, I hope you will look into this.
Yours Faithfully
C S ########
The Reply:
Subj: RE: (no subject)
Date: 31/05/02 16:46:13 GMT Daylight Time
From: DBOHRER@ithaca.gannett.com (Bohrer, Dave)
To: TheSaintCSB@######
Dear C.S. ########,
Thank you for your interest in The Ithaca Journal and in particular the May 25 article about Army Private Matt Guckenheimer.
I spoke to Private Guckenheimer yesterday and he clarified his statement. He said his unit was not ordered to kill women and children, but that they were cautioned that women and children could act as combatants and they should be prepared for that.
He has written a letter to the editor that provides additional context. It will appear early next week in The Journal, likely on Tuesday.
Sincerely,
Dave Bohrer
Assistant Managing Editor
Note that Bohrer does not say that the quoted are not the words of the Private, why did he say what he said originally? It does need to be investigated further. The letter has yet to appear in the Journal, as far as I'm aware... | | | | msteffan1 | | Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 11:51 am Post subject: |
| The guy is a private soldier I take it?
Any orders group he would have been part of would have been from his own company commader at the hightest level. A major or captain..I would think though that his orders group would more likely to have been at platton level with a 2nd leutenants or even Seargeant at his level.
A group of guys on the boil...rearing to gol..whether we like it or not..they would be rearing to go..Theyve been given the layout of the orders..kit to take..assesment of enemy in area and support likely to be available..
In a grouping of about maybe 30 men...theybe been whooping..adenalin flowing...lets kick some butt..and someone says..and hey anyone gets in my way.dont care if theyve got beards...skirts..or kids...they just better not get in my way...Summit like that is my guess not an order or a driective from above...Gung ho lets go..stuff..all capable of.
Then he comes back..goes home..and like all guys who have been in danger.seen a little action of any sort..hes seperated from his grouping..different world now..people going round jumpiing in taxis..going to bars...living normally..and hes thinking hey you gits..this isnt real..dont you know theres people laying with no limbs over there..kids dead...people getting blasted ..whats the matter with you lot..wake up..why cant you see what ive been through..im still up in the air..this aint normal...
Ive got to talk to someone..and while im talking ..Shit..ive said summit i shouldnt .....maybe...did it happen..
Its called PTSD..Ask anyone returning from a danger area and taken away from their group their mates..and shoved on leave into normality... | | | | Saint | | | | msteffan1 | | Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:22 pm Post subject: |
| The guys been leaned on..which is very likely. Or hes realised hes in for some serious flack coming his way and is backtracking fast.
Either way....Hes on his own and facing some heavy trouble.
I still stand by my view that he is a bloke back from the scene with some problems that he needs help with.
There are many examples of similar stories from vets fom Vietnam and even our own Falklands guys on their return..Killing of prisoners raised by one of our own and he was dismissed too. Vincent Bramley..Parachute Regiment. | | | | FoxtrotAlpha | | Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 5:07 pm Post subject: |
| | msteffan1 wrote: | | The guys been leaned on..which is very likely. Or hes realised hes in for some serious flack coming his way and is backtracking fast. |
At last we agree. This bloike is just looking for attention by making up shit. Out of every 100 troops you get 1 who cant handle it. This is the one. | | | | Saint | | Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 5:07 pm Post subject: |
| | msteffan1 wrote: | The guys been leaned on..which is very likely. Or hes realised hes in for some serious flack coming his way and is backtracking fast.
Either way....Hes on his own and facing some heavy trouble.
I still stand by my view that he is a bloke back from the scene with some problems that he needs help with.
There are many examples of similar stories from vets fom Vietnam and even our own Falklands guys on their return..Killing of prisoners raised by one of our own and he was dismissed too. Vincent Bramley..Parachute Regiment. |
Yeah, I agree with what you say M, PTSD can be, often is, horrendous. But I think there should at least be some sort of investigation carried out by the US Army regarding his original comments, maybe there has been one and we have not heard of it, who knows. His original comments could, as you say, be a result of post traumatic stress disorder, an outburst that was not accurate.
But they could, small chance but not wholly incomprehensible, be true, even if he is suffering for PTSD, we're not aware as to whether he is or not, order given, or words were had in the feild, we've seen that in the past too, as you know. I think it does still need to be looked into. | | | | Saint | | Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 5:10 pm Post subject: |
| | FoxtrotAlpha wrote: | | msteffan1 wrote: | | The guys been leaned on..which is very likely. Or hes realised hes in for some serious flack coming his way and is backtracking fast. |
At last we agree. This bloike is just looking for attention by making up shit. Out of every 100 troops you get 1 who cant handle it. This is the one. |
Or 99 that can keep their mouths shut and one brave enough to speak out, who knows... | | | | | ©2002-2009 WarWithoutEnd.co.uk |
