| Author | Message | | funglefoot | | Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:41 am Post subject: |
| Message posted above is obviously F.A.O. COWBOY.  | |  | | funglefoot | | Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: |
| And the question is....
| CB at page 9 wrote: | | But still you pretend that WMD were the only reason for the military action. |
| JD at page 10 wrote: | | Still no WMD's, mobile labs, flying drones of death or 45 minute launch capabilities. |
| FF at page 10 wrote: | | Cowboywitz likes to pretend that there were a 'host of other reasons' for the invasion of Iraq. Unfortunately he doesn't make the point of how much 'air time' these other reasons were given, how they were presented to the public, and how much 'air time' they got in comparison to the daily drip-drip feed of the WMD. [It was more like a steady torrent.] |
no reply
| FF at page 10 wrote: | | how come they didn't correct the media and get them to cover all the other legion reasons to go to war. |
no reply
| FF at page 10 wrote: | | Fair enough. You show me then, where all these other reasons were discussed in the media, and convince me that they were given anywhere near the prominence which was given to the WMD. |
no reply
| FF at page 10 wrote: | | Now show me all the places in the media pre March 2003 where all these other reasons, which you cite endlessly, were given equal or greater prominence to the WMD. |
no reply
| FF at page 11 wrote: | | Just show me please where, in the media accessible to the general public all these 'other reasons', that you cite so endlessly, were given equal or greater prominence to the WMD prior to the invasion of Iraq. |
no reply
| FF at page 11 AGAIN wrote: | | Just show me please where, in the media accessible to the general public all these 'other reasons', that you cite so endlessly, were given equal or greater prominence to the WMD prior to the invasion of Iraq. |
Finally, finally, we have an answer (of sorts)...
| CB finally, at page 11 wrote: | | Media prominence is up to the media. |
One assumes always that if the press says that you said something you didn't say, or didn't mean the way it was reported, there is no obligation on you to correct the press. Even the White House, it seems, can blithely ignore whatever the press says about it. Reckless irresponsibility on an arch criminal scale! More likely deliberate lies by omission.
| FF at page 12 wrote: | | I have asked you many times where in the public media your points 2 to 32 were given any prominence anywhere near the prominence given to the WMD. You consistently fail to do so. |
no reply
| CB at page 12 wrote: | | FF at page 12 wrote: | | Parts 2 to 32: I do not believe the general public was aware of these. |
I am the general public. I was well aware of them. |
Cowboy judges the general public by his own standards of awareness. Can Cowboy produce just one single message that he posted on WWE before the invasion that gave any prominence to his other reasons, which incidentally often refer back to the WMD. Thus his 'other reasons' in many cases simply reinforce the argument that the main reason to go to war was the WMD. Cowboy goes ahead and plays the ball onto his own stumps and maintains he scored a six. Truly there is something tragic about an accomplished clown.
| Quote: | I am the general public. I was well aware of the reasons simply by actually following current events and Congress.
This has been a matter of public record ever since the act was passed in 2002......
AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE AGAINST IRAQ RESOLUTION OF 2002 - Public Law 107-243
The short list of reasons laid out by Congress:.....[these have been reproduced so many times that I will spare any readers I may have the nausea of viewing them again] |
Again Cowboy fails/refuses to give any proof that his 'short list of reasons' received any prominence in the press or other media. How about some links to those instruments which made him so aware? Why not Mr Cowboy? Does March 2003 constitute some sort of stumbling block?
| JD at page 13 wrote: | Avoid and divert Cowboy, it's all you can do. WMD's was the main message and dominant message communicated by the neocons despite all contrary info and was foisted on the people as a lie in a most dishonest , disreputable means based on lies
and YOU CAN"T DISPROVE IT |
Cowboy still can't produce any evidence that the 'other reasons' received any coverage in the press or other media. His predictable response was to SPAM 'The short list of reasons laid out by Congress'. Poor Cowboy has to do his masters' bidding. If AIPAC says SPAM the short list of reasons then that is what the obedient Cowboy must do.
| FF at page 13 wrote: | | Without a proper LINK "The short list of reasons laid out by Congress" does not exist and your argument collapses accordingly. |
Cowboy happily SPAMS away page after page without ever quoting his sources or providing any LINK and then he will go ahead and accuse us of ignoring the facts, viz. his short list. A FACT is only a FACT once it has been verified; without verification it remains at best a probability, at worst a hoax. | | | | funglefoot | | Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: |
| Examination of 'short list of reasons laid out by Congress'
But lets be kind and give Cowboy the benefit of the doubt, despite his refusal/failure to provide any link for his celebrated 'short list of reasons laid out by Congress'. Lets look at them, one by one, and examine exactly what they say. Do they reveal other cogent reasons to invade Iraq, or are they the tired old repetition of the 'imminent and real danger' presented by the WMD? Judge for yourselves. Links available on request, even to Cowboy who does not supply them to anyone else.
1. WMD’s (let’s go ahead and get it out of the way)
They continue to crop up with monotonous regularity.
2. Violation of 1991 UN Cease-Fire Agreement (Kuwait invasion); Multiple Counts
a) non-allowance of weapons inspectors for WMD (chemical/biological) programs
See no sooner said than the WMD are back again.
b) non-allowance of inspection of Nuclear program
There was no Nuclear program. Nuclear arms? Surely another non-existant WMD.
c) continued support of terrorism ($25,000 payment to families of suicide bombers, for instance)
Terrorists who would deploy the WMD, surely.
3. Kicking out UN Inspectors on October 31st, 1998
Those very same UN Inspectors who were looking for WMD.
4. Violation of Congressional US Public Law 105-235 (8/14/1998); Congress URGES Bush “to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the U.S., to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations” Meaning: ‘Iraq is a threat and has made threats. We must respond accordingly.’ [Saddam at this time, and since 1991, had threatened violence against the US and on US soil -Ed.]
You only have to read as far as the third paragraph before you encounter the ubiquitous WMD.
| Quote: | | international economic sanctions remain in place until Iraq discloses and destroys its weapons of mass destruction programs and capabilities and undertakes unconditionally never to resume such activities; |
http://www.milnet.com/public-law-105-235.htm
5. Harboring known International fugitives (Abu Nidal, Abdul Rahman Yasin, Abu al-Abbas, etc...) and supporting terrorist organizations (Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, Fedayeen, Al Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade... even Al Qaeda).
Again the link to the WMD must be drawn. Any of these terrorists could have taken delivery of a dirty suitcase bomb containing a WMD. 
6. The Brutal Repression of the People of Iraq. [Seriously, no-one's trying to argue against this, are they? -Ed.]
One has to ask oneself whether the people of Iraq are in a better position today, often without water, electricity, sewage and public order, than they were under Saddam Hussein prior to the invasion. 
7. Refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained including American servicemen
If wrongfully detained then their whereabouts in Iraq would surely have been known and their release would have been straight forward. You cannot claim without specifying the location that someone is wrongfully detained. Can they even prove that these persons were alive?
8. Refusing to return Kuwaiti property to Kuwait stolen in the illegal 1991 invasion
One cause of the First Gulf War was the allegation by Saddam that Kuwait was tapping Iraqi oil sources. Theft appears to be a two way street.
9. The Use of WMD’s against other nations (Iran) and its own people (Kurd’s). This is a UN Human Right’s violation
WMD raise their head once again. America supported Iraq in its war with Iran. Just how two-faced can you get? The use of WMD against the Kurds was a crime against humanity but occurred well before March 2003 and was not acted against at the time of commission.
10. The 1993 ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT of PRESIDENT BUSH, SR. This doesn’t get enough play
Perhaps because it cannot be proven.
11. Firing (over 7,000 thousand times) on Coalition aircraft patrolling the no-fly zone. [An Act of War... to put it mildly. Just because the aircraft isn’t over Georgia does not mean he wasn’t attacking the American military for over 10 years. -Ed.]
Who is the editor? Why haven't we been introduced? I somehow doubt that America and partners would put up with being shot at 7,000 times without firing back.
12. Harboring elements of Al Qaeda [I back this up with the celebrated tome, “The Secret History of the Iraq War” by Yossuf Bodansky, 2004. -Ed.]
This is a rehash of no. 5. This title is unknown by Amazon AND Wikipedia and so is the author.
13. His tendency to give weapons to terrorists, and the threat posed by his WMD programs falling into their hands creates a serious security concern for the US.
Once again the WMD , mentioned over 10 times now and a repeat of the terrorist danger from no. 5 above.
14. UN Security Council Resolution 678 (1990)
on the situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 29 November 1990 - Authorizes Member States, unless Iraq on or before 15 January 1991 fully implements Security Council resolutions, to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area. |
Stale cheese. Gulf War I 
15. UN Security Council Resolution 660 (1990)
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 2 August 1990 - Demands that Iraq withdraw immediately and unconditionally all its forces to the positions in which they were located on 1 August 1990. |
Gulf War I
16. UN Security Council Resolution 687 (1991)
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 8 April 1991 - Decides that, as a condition of a cease-fire, Iraq shall unconditionally accept the destruction, removal, or rendering harmless, under international supervision, of all nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities, as well as all ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometres and related major parts, and repair and production facilities, and that a Special Commission shall carry out on-site inspection of any locations in Iraq. |
Once more and yet again the WMD are the main subject.
17. UN Security Council Resolution 688 (1991)
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 5 April 1991 - Condemns the repression of the Iraqi civilian population in many parts of Iraq, including in Kurdish populated areas, and insists that Iraq allow immediate access by international humanitarian organizations. |
Should people who live in glass houses throw stones? Are the people of Iraq better off or worse off under the heel of America? A rehash of point 6 above.
18. UN Security Council Resolution 949 (1994)
withdrawal of Iraqi troops from southern Iraq...
| Quote: | | 15 October 1994 - Condemned and demanded the immediate and complete the withdrawal of all Iraqi military units recently deployed to southern Iraq | .
Iraq complied.
19. UN Security Council Resolution 661
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 6 August 1990 - Decides restore the authority of the legitimate Government of Kuwait, and decides that all States shall prevent the import into their territories of all commodities and products originating in Iraq or Kuwait. |
Relates to Gulf War I not to Gulf War II.
20. UN Security Council Resolution 662
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 9 August 1990 - Decides that annexation of Kuwait by Iraq under any form and whatever pretext has no legal validity, and demands that Iraq rescind its actions purporting to annex Kuwait. |
Relates to Gulf War I not to Gulf War II.
21. UN Security Council Resolution 664
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 18 August 1990 - Demands that Iraq permit and facilitate the immediate departure from Kuwait and Iraq of the nationals of third countries and grant immediate and continuing access of consular officials to such nationals. |
Relates to Gulf War I not to Gulf War II.
22. UN Security Council Resolution 665
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 25 August 1990 - Calls upon those Member States which are deploying maritime forces to the area to use such measures commensurate to the specific circumstances as may be necessary under the authority of the Security Council to halt all inward and outward maritime shipping. |
Enforcement of sanctions.
23. UN Security Council Resolution 666
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 13 September 1990 - Requests the Secretary-General to use his good offices to facilitate the delivery and distribution of foodstuffs to Kuwait and Iraq in order to relieve human suffering. |
Humanitarian.
24. UN Security Council Resolution 667
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 16 September 1990 - Strongly condemns aggressive acts perpetrated by Iraq against diplomatic premises and personnel in Kuwait, including the abduction of foreign nationals, and demands that Iraq immediately protect the safety and well-being of diplomatic and consular personnel and premises in Kuwait and in Iraq. |
Diplomatic Immunity.
25. UN Security Council Resolution 669
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 24 September 1990 - Entrusts the Committee established under resolution 661 (1990) concerning the situation between Iraq and Kuwait with the task of examining requests for assistance under the provisions of Article 50 of the Charter of the United Nations and making recommendations to the President of the Security Council for appropriate action. |
Special economic problems arising...
26. UN Security Council Resolution 670
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 25 September 1990 - Decides that all States shall deny permission to any aircraft to take off from their territory if the aircraft would carry any cargo to or from Iraq or Kuwait other than food in humanitarian circumstances, and shall deny permission to any aircraft destined to land in Iraq or Kuwait, whatever its State of registration, to overfly its territory |
Enforcement of sanctions.
27. UN Security Council Resolution 674
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 29 October 1990 - Demands that the Iraqi authorities and occupying forces immediately cease and desist from taking third State nationals hostage, and mistreating and oppressing Kuwaiti and third State nationals. |
Gulf War I
28. UN Security Council Resolution 677
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 28 November 1990 - Condemns the attempts by Iraq to alter the demographic composition of the population of Kuwait and to destroy the civil records maintained by the legitimate Government of Kuwait. |
Gulf War I
29. US, Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338) “Regime Change necessary” (Clinton)
| Quote: | | President George W. Bush has often referred to the Act and its findings to argue that the Clinton Administration supported regime change in Iraq and further that it believed that Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction. |
Once again its those WMD, thin on the ground but there's a whole rash of them in Cowboy's celebrated "short list of reasons laid out by Congress"
30. Statements made directly to Iraq on Sept 12th, 2002 that called (from the UN) for the Security Resolutions to be adhered to, or be threatened by use of force backed by the UN. A Diplomatic “Verbal Warning”
Which Security Resolutions do you refer to, Cowboy? The same ones that refer to the WMD?
31. Public Law 107-40
Authorization for Use of Military Force September 18, 2001
| Quote: | To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.
Whereas, on September 11, 2001, acts of treacherous violence were committed against the United States and its citizens; and... |
This was clearly to do with the 911 attacks in which Iraq had no part, yet you have the cheek to cite it as a reason for the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Don't you ever weary of showing what a LIAR you are, Cowboy? Perhaps I shouldn't judge you too harshly - you have to work with the material that AIPAC gives you.
(32. Not Listed, but the final UN Security Council Resolution 1441 came after this Congressional document)
| Quote: | Resolution 1441 specifically stated:
That Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs), but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by its troops in 1991.
That this represented Iraq's final opportunity to comply with disarmament requirements. In accordance with the previous Resolutions, this meant Iraq not only had to verify the existence or destruction of its remaining unaccounted-for WMD stockpiles, but also had to ensure that all equipment, plans, and materials useful for the resumption of WMD programs was likewise turned over or verified as destroyed.
That "...false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq’s obligations". |
WMD AGAIN!!!
So much mention of the WMD, which reappear like a rash all over Cowboy's "short list of reasons laid out by Congress". He can supply no LINK for this 'list' or refuses to do so. He uses this 'list' to support his ridiculous claim that the WMD were not the main, compelling reason to invade Iraq.
In the above list the WMD are mentioned, directly or indirectly some thirteen times, ie in 12 points.
Gulf War I, the liberation of Kuwait, is the subject of some 15 of the above points.
That leaves various points in the above 'short list' that do not concern either WMD or Gulf War I, the liberation of Kuwait. You can see which ones they are:
6. The Brutal Repression of the People of Iraq. [hardly worse than what they have now under American occupation].
7. Refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained including American servicemen [place of detention unknown ]
8. Refusing to return Kuwaiti property to Kuwait stolen in the illegal 1991 invasion [Kuwait had allegedly been stealing Iraq's oil]
10. The 1993 ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT of PRESIDENT BUSH, SR. [not proven]
11. Firing (over 7,000 thousand times) on Coalition aircraft patrolling the no-fly zone. [in reply to which not a single shot was fired?]
12. Harboring elements of Al Qaeda [already mentioned under 5]
31. Public Law 107-40 [Response to 911 which had nothing to do with Iraq]
Note: some points overlap.
The dominant theme was the WMD, apart from a continuous carping on Gulf War I. How does Cowboy come to the ridiculous conclusion the WMD were not the main and compelling reason for the attack on Iraq? He is without doubt the most blatant BULLSHITTER that ever composed a message on WWE. | | | | dzh | | Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
| Piss, moan, relativise, act smarmy. Repeat.  | | | | funglefoot | | Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: |
| shit - shout - prioritize - act balmy - delete  | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:49 am Post subject: |
|
Aside from FF ignoring the fact that it was never the job of the inspectors in Iraq to search for WMD (It was Iraq's job to account for and confirm the destruction of their WMDs), and that Iraq's violations are well documented....
Let's look at his trailing comments....
| Quote: | | 6. The Brutal Repression of the People of Iraq. [hardly worse than what they have now under American occupation]. |
The US is not occupying Iraq. The US is there at the request of the elected Iraqi government and the approval of the UN to help prevent the murder of Muslims by other Muslims.
| Quote: | | 7. Refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained including American servicemen [place of detention unknown ] |
| Quote: | | 8. Refusing to return Kuwaiti property to Kuwait stolen in the illegal 1991 invasion [Kuwait had allegedly been stealing Iraq's oil] |
Allegedly. But never actually substantiated. And Saddam's claims of the alleged theft were just a cover story for his agenda to take over the sovereign country of Kuwait.
| Quote: | | 10. The 1993 ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT of PRESIDENT BUSH, SR. [not proven] |
| Quote: | | 11. Firing (over 7,000 thousand times) on Coalition aircraft patrolling the no-fly zone. [in reply to which not a single shot was fired?] |
The fact that US aircraft defended themselves after being fired upon does not change Iraq's violations of the cease fire.
| Quote: | 12. Harboring elements of Al Qaeda [already mentioned under 5]...
5. Harboring known International fugitives (Abu Nidal, Abdul Rahman Yasin, Abu al-Abbas, etc...) and supporting terrorist organizations (Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, Fedayeen, Al Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade... even Al Qaeda).
Again the link to the WMD must be drawn. Any of these terrorists could have taken delivery of a dirty suitcase bomb containing a WMD. |
A link to WMD does not have to be drawn. Harboring terrorists is harboring terrorists.
| Quote: | | 31. Public Law 107-40 [Response to 911 which had nothing to do with Iraq] |
Harboring terrorists has everything to do with Public Law 107-40. | | | | funglefoot | | Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: |
| 1. WMD’s (let’s go ahead and get it out of the way)
They continue to crop up with monotonous regularity....
As I have stated before the WMD are all over your alleged (you still persist in failing to provide any link) "short list of reasons laid out by Congress" like a rash.
2a; 2b; 4; 9; 13; 16; 29; 30; and 32. Nine times have the WMD been directly mentioned in this apparently fake 'short list'.
Why don't you give us the 'long list' and we can probably find even more references to the WMD....
Why do you persist in hiding the source of this 'short list'? Did you make it up yourself 
There are 14 or 15 (take your pick) points which refer to Gulf War I which was fought over a decade ago.
That leaves you with a motley, meager assortment of 'other reasons' like for instance the alleged assassination attempt on George Bush snr. which was never followed up on, or reacted to, and is strongly viewed as a hoax.
http://www.rense.com/general67/comdt.htm
You're a Bull Shitter Cowboy. You pull this 'short list' out of your hat, but guess what? its full of the WMD. You have no link or source for it. There are nine direct references to the WMD and there are at least three indirect references. You billed this 'short list' as a long list of other reasons for Gulf War II. Most are to do with Gulf War I and the vast majority of the remainder are to do with the WMD.
Try again, Cowboy. Haven't you got an 'intermediate list' in your hat, you cheap fake.
You made up that 'short list' yourself. What an arsehole you are. Was that the very best you could do? If they are not your own work then you are still an arsehole for punting them on WWE.
 | | | | funglefoot | | Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: |
| FOR ANYONE INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH, RATHER THAN COWBOY'S EDITING OF THE TRUTH, HERE IS THE REAL McCOY....
See if you can spot the similarity with Cowboys 'short list of reasons laid out by Congress'. I can see no correlation myself but perhaps I have a jaundiced eye....
116 STAT. 1498 PUBLIC LAW 107–243—OCT. 16, 2002
Public Law 107–243
107th Congress
Joint Resolution
To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
Whereas in 1990 in response to Iraq’s war of aggression against
and illegal occupation of Kuwait, the United States forged a
coalition of nations to liberate Kuwait and its people in order
to defend the national security of the United States and enforce
United Nations Security Council resolutions relating to Iraq;
Whereas after the liberation of Kuwait in 1991, Iraq entered into
a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement pursuant to
which Iraq unequivocally agreed, among other things, to eliminate
its nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons programs
and the means to deliver and develop them, and to end its
support for international terrorism;
Whereas the efforts of international weapons inspectors, United
States intelligence agencies, and Iraqi defectors led to the discovery
that Iraq had large stockpiles of chemical weapons and a
large scale biological weapons program, and that Iraq had an
advanced nuclear weapons development program that was much closer to producing a nuclear weapon than intelligence reporting had previously indicated;
Whereas Iraq, in direct and flagrant violation of the cease-fire,
attempted to thwart the efforts of weapons inspectors to identify
and destroy Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction stockpiles and development capabilities, which finally resulted in the withdrawal of inspectors from Iraq on October 31, 1998;
Whereas in Public Law 105–235 (August 14, 1998), Congress concluded
that Iraq’s continuing weapons of mass destruction programs threatened vital United States interests and international peace and security, declared Iraq to be in ‘‘material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations’’ and urged the President ‘‘to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution
and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations’’;
Whereas Iraq both poses a continuing threat to the national security
of the United States and international peace and security in
the Persian Gulf region and remains in material and unacceptable
breach of its international obligations by, among other things,
continuing to possess and develop a significant chemical
and
biological weapons capability, actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability, and supporting and harboring terrorist organizations;
Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolution of the United Nations
Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression
of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace
and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate,
or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq,
including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property
wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;
Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its capability
and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people;
Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing
hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States,
including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President
Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United
States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the
resolutions of the United Nations Security Council;
Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility
for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests,
including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are
known to be in Iraq;
Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist
organizations, including organizations that threaten the
lives and safety of United States citizens;
Whereas the attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001,
underscored the gravity of the threat posed by the acquisition
of weapons of mass destruction by international terrorist organizations;
Whereas Iraq’s demonstrated capability and willingness to use
weapons of mass destruction, the risk that the current Iraqi regime will either employ those weapons to launch a surprise attack against the United States or its Armed Forces or provide them to international terrorists who would do so, and the extreme magnitude of harm that would result to the United States and
its citizens from such an attack, combine to justify action by the United States to defend itself;
Whereas United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 (1990)
authorizes the use of all necessary means to enforce United
Nations Security Council Resolution 660 (1990) and subsequent
relevant resolutions and to compel Iraq to cease certain activities
that threaten international peace and security, including the
development of weapons of mass destruction and refusal or obstruction of United Nations weapons inspections in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 (1991), repression of its civilian population in violation of United Nations
Security Council Resolution 688 (1991), and threatening its neighbors
or United Nations operations in Iraq in violation of United
Nations Security Council Resolution 949 (1994);
Whereas in the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against
Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102–1), Congress has authorized
the President ‘‘to use United States Armed Forces pursuant to
United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 (1990) in order
to achieve implementation of Security Council Resolution 660,
661, 662, 664, 665, 666, 667, 669, 670, 674, and 677’’;
Whereas in December 1991, Congress expressed its sense that
it ‘‘supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals
of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 as being consistent
with the Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102–1),’’ that Iraq’s repression of
its civilian population violates United Nations Security Council
Resolution 688 and ‘‘constitutes a continuing threat to the peace,
security, and stability of the Persian Gulf region,’’ and that Congress,
‘‘supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the
goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688’’;
Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105–338)
expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy
of the United States to support efforts to remove from power
the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic
government to replace that regime;
Whereas on September 12, 2002, President Bush committed the
United States to ‘‘work with the United Nations Security Council
to meet our common challenge’’ posed by Iraq and to ‘‘work
for the necessary resolutions,’’ while also making clear that ‘‘the
Security Council resolutions will be enforced, and the just
demands of peace and security will be met, or action will be
unavoidable’’;
Whereas the United States is determined to prosecute the war
on terrorism and Iraq’s ongoing support for international terrorist
groups combined with its development of weapons of mass
destruction in direct violation of its obligations under the 1991
cease-fire and other United Nations Security Council resolutions
make clear that it is in the national security interests of the
United States and in furtherance of the war on terrorism that
all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions be
enforced, including through the use of force if necessary;
Whereas Congress has taken steps to pursue vigorously the war
on terrorism through the provision of authorities and funding
requested by the President to take the necessary actions against
international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including
those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized,
committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September
11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;
Whereas the President and Congress are determined to continue
to take all appropriate actions against international terrorists
and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations,
or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided
the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or
harbored such persons or organizations;
Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution to
take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international
terrorism against the United States, as Congress recognized in
the joint resolution on Authorization for Use of Military Force
(Public Law 107–40); and
Whereas it is in the national security interests of the United States
to restore international peace and security to the Persian Gulf
region: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This joint resolution may be cited as the ‘‘Authorization for
Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002’’.
SEC. 2. SUPPORT FOR UNITED STATES DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS.
The Congress of the United States supports the efforts by
the President to—
(1) strictly enforce through the United Nations Security
Council all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq
and encourages him in those efforts; and
(2) obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security
Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay,
evasion and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies
with all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.
SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) AUTHORIZATION.—The President is authorized to use the
Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary
and appropriate in order to—
1) defend the national security of the United States against
the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq.
(b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION.—In connection with the
exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force
the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter
as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising
such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of
Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his
determination that—
(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic
or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately
protect the national security of the United States against the
continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead
to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq; and
(2) acting pursuant to this joint resolution is consistent
with the United States and other countries continuing to take
the necessary actions against international terrorist and terrorist
organizations, including those nations, organizations, or
persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist
attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.
(c) WAR POWERS RESOLUTION REQUIREMENTS.—
(1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION.—Consistent with
section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress
declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory
authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the
War Powers Resolution.
(2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS.—Nothing in
this joint resolution supersedes any requirement of the War
Powers Resolution.
SEC. 4. REPORTS TO CONGRESS.
(a) REPORTS.—The President shall, at least once every 60 days,
submit to the Congress a report on matters relevant to this joint
resolution, including actions taken pursuant to the exercise of
authority granted in section 3 and the status of planning for efforts
that are expected to be required after such actions are completed,
including those actions described in section 7 of the Iraq Liberation
Act of 1998 (Public Law 105–338).
President.
(b) SINGLE CONSOLIDATED REPORT.—To the extent that the
submission of any report described in subsection (a) coincides with
the submission of any other report on matters relevant to this
joint resolution otherwise required to be submitted to Congress
pursuant to the reporting requirements of the War Powers Resolution
(Public Law 93–148), all such reports may be submitted as
a single consolidated report to the Congress.
(c) RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.—To the extent that the information
required by section 3 of the Authorization for Use of Military
Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102–1) is included in
the report required by this section, such report shall be considered
as meeting the requirements of section 3 of such resolution.
Approved October 16, 2002. | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:56 am Post subject: |
| WMD were not the only reason provided for the military action against Iraq.
Documented history clearly shows that, though the islamoleft struggles to remain in denial.
Go ahead and look at the list and the document.
| fungalfoot wrote: | | I can see no correlation myself... |
FF is blinded by desperate denial...
| Quote: | AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE AGAINST IRAQ RESOLUTION OF 2002 - Public Law 107-243
The short list of reasons laid out by Congress:
1. WMD’s (let’s go ahead and get it out of the way)
2. Violation of 1991 UN Cease-Fire Agreement (Kuwait invasion); Multiple Counts
a) non-allowance of weapons inspectors for WMD (chemical/biological) programs
b) non-allowance of inspection of Nuclear program
c) continued support of terrorism ($25,000 payment to families of suicide bombers, for instance)
3. Kicking out UN Inspectors on October 31st, 1998
4. Violation of Congressional US Public Law 105-235 (8/14/1998); Congress URGES Bush “to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the U.S., to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations” Meaning: ‘Iraq is a threat and has made threats. We must respond accordingly.’ [Saddam at this time, and since 1991, had threatened violence against the US and on US soil -Ed.]
5. Harboring known International fugitives (Abu Nidal, Abdul Rahman Yasin, Abu al-Abbas, etc...) and supporting terrorist organizations (Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, Fedayeen, Al Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade... even Al Qaeda).
6. The Brutal Repression of the People of Iraq. [Seriously, no-one's trying to argue against this, are they? -Ed.]
7. Refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained including American servicemen
8. Refusing to return Kuwaiti property to Kuwait stolen in the illegal 1991 invasion
9. The Use of WMD’s against other nations (Iran) and its own people (Kurd’s). This is a UN Human Right’s violation
10. The 1993 ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT of PRESIDENT BUSH, SR. This doesn’t get enough play
11. Firing (over 7,000 thousand times) on Coalition aircraft patrolling the no-fly zone. [An Act of War... to put it mildly. Just because the aircraft isn’t over Georgia does not mean he wasn’t attacking the American military for over 10 years. -Ed.]
12. Harboring elements of Al Qaeda [I back this up with the celebrated tome, “The Secret History of the Iraq War” by Yossuf Bodansky, 2004. -Ed.]
13. His tendency to give weapons to terrorists, and the threat posed by his WMD programs falling into their hands creates a serious security concern for the US.
14. UN Security Council Resolution 678 (1990)
15. UN Security Council Resolution 660 (1990)
16. UN Security Council Resolution 687 (1991)
17. UN Security Council Resolution 688 (1991)
18. UN Security Council Resolution 949 (1994)
19. UN Security Council Resolution 661
20. UN Security Council Resolution 662
21. UN Security Council Resolution 664
22. UN Security Council Resolution 665
23. UN Security Council Resolution 666
24. UN Security Council Resolution 667
25. UN Security Council Resolution 669
26. UN Security Council Resolution 670
27. UN Security Council Resolution 674
28. UN Security Council Resolution 677
29. US, Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338) “Regime Change necessary” (Clinton)
30. Statements made directly to Iraq on Sept 12th, 2002 that called (from the UN) for the Security Resolutions to be adhered to, or be threatened by use of force backed by the UN. A Diplomatic “Verbal Warning”
31. Public Law 107-40
(32. Not Listed, but the final UN Security Council Resolution 1441 came after this Congressional document) | | | | | funglefoot | | Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:11 am Post subject: |
| | CB wrote: | | WMD were not the only reason provided for the military action against Iraq. |
Softly, softly we are moving away from the suggestion that WMD were not THE MAIN reason for Gulf War II. Most of your short list is irrelevant as it applies to Gulf War I. What remains is a sprinkling of bullshit reasons, like eg. the attempted assassination of George Bush snr, and a solid phalanx of reasons directly related to the alleged WMD plus a few indirectly connected to the alleged WMD.
Where are they Cowboy? Tell us where they are, or where they were, or where they still remain to be found. Don't pretend that they were not the main reason to go to war. As I have demonstrated over and over again in my messages above your 'short list' has got the alleged WMD dotted all over it like a rash.
| CB wrote: | | Go ahead and look at the list and the document. |
Lets do just that...
1. WMD’s (let’s go ahead and get it out of the way)
They continue to crop up with monotonous regularity.
2. Violation of 1991 UN Cease-Fire Agreement (Kuwait invasion); Multiple Counts
a) non-allowance of weapons inspectors for WMD (chemical/biological) programs
See no sooner said than the WMD are back again.
b) non-allowance of inspection of Nuclear program
There was no Nuclear program. Nuclear arms? Surely another non-existant WMD.
c) continued support of terrorism ($25,000 payment to families of suicide bombers, for instance)
Terrorists who would deploy the WMD, surely.
3. Kicking out UN Inspectors on October 31st, 1998
Those very same UN Inspectors who were looking for WMD.
4. Violation of Congressional US Public Law 105-235 (8/14/1998); Congress URGES Bush “to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the U.S., to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations” Meaning: ‘Iraq is a threat and has made threats. We must respond accordingly.’ [Saddam at this time, and since 1991, had threatened violence against the US and on US soil -Ed.]
You only have to read as far as the third paragraph before you encounter the ubiquitous WMD.
| Quote: | | international economic sanctions remain in place until Iraq discloses and destroys its weapons of mass destruction programs and capabilities and undertakes unconditionally never to resume such activities; |
http://www.milnet.com/public-law-105-235.htm
5. Harboring known International fugitives (Abu Nidal, Abdul Rahman Yasin, Abu al-Abbas, etc...) and supporting terrorist organizations (Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, Fedayeen, Al Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade... even Al Qaeda).
Again the link to the WMD must be drawn. Any of these terrorists could have taken delivery of a dirty suitcase bomb containing a WMD.
6. The Brutal Repression of the People of Iraq. [Seriously, no-one's trying to argue against this, are they? -Ed.]
One has to ask oneself whether the people of Iraq are in a better position today, often without water, electricity, sewage and public order, than they were under Saddam Hussein prior to the invasion.
7. Refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained including American servicemen
If wrongfully detained then their whereabouts in Iraq would surely have been known and their release would have been straight forward. You cannot claim without specifying the location that someone is wrongfully detained.
8. Refusing to return Kuwaiti property to Kuwait stolen in the illegal 1991 invasion
One cause of the First Gulf War was the allegation by Saddam that Kuwait was tapping Iraqi oil sources. Theft appears to be a two way street.
9. The Use of WMD’s against other nations (Iran) and its own people (Kurd’s). This is a UN Human Right’s violation
WMD raise their head once again. America supported Iraq in its war with Iran. Just how two-faced can you get? The use of WMD against the Kurds was a crime against humanity but occurred well before March 2003 and was not acted against at the time of commission.
10. The 1993 ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT of PRESIDENT BUSH, SR. This doesn’t get enough play
Perhaps because it cannot be proven.
11. Firing (over 7,000 thousand times) on Coalition aircraft patrolling the no-fly zone. [An Act of War... to put it mildly. Just because the aircraft isn’t over Georgia does not mean he wasn’t attacking the American military for over 10 years. -Ed.]
Who is the editor? Why haven't we been introduced? I somehow doubt that America and partners would put up with being shot at 7,000 times.
12. Harboring elements of Al Qaeda [I back this up with the celebrated tome, “The Secret History of the Iraq War” by Yossuf Bodansky, 2004. -Ed.]
This is a rehash of no. 5. This title is unknown by Amazon AND Wikipedia and so is the author.
13. His tendency to give weapons to terrorists, and the threat posed by his WMD programs falling into their hands creates a serious security concern for the US.
Once again the WMD , mentioned over 10 times now and a repeat of the terrorist danger from no. 5 above.
14. UN Security Council Resolution 678 (1990)
on the situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 29 November 1990 - Authorizes Member States, unless Iraq on or before 15 January 1991 fully implements Security Council resolutions, to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area. |
Stale cheese. Gulf War I
15. UN Security Council Resolution 660 (1990)
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 2 August 1990 - Demands that Iraq withdraw immediately and unconditionally all its forces to the positions in which they were located on 1 August 1990. |
Gulf War I
16. UN Security Council Resolution 687 (1991)
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 8 April 1991 - Decides that, as a condition of a cease-fire, Iraq shall unconditionally accept the destruction, removal, or rendering harmless, under international supervision, of all nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities, as well as all ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometres and related major parts, and repair and production facilities, and that a Special Commission shall carry out on-site inspection of any locations in Iraq. |
Once more and yet again the WMD are the main subject.
17. UN Security Council Resolution 688 (1991)
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 5 April 1991 - Condemns the repression of the Iraqi civilian population in many parts of Iraq, including in Kurdish populated areas, and insists that Iraq allow immediate access by international humanitarian organizations. |
Should people who live in glass houses throw stones? Are the people of Iraq better off or worse off under the heel of America? A rehash of point 6 above.
18. UN Security Council Resolution 949 (1994)
withdrawal of Iraqi troops from southern Iraq...
| Quote: | | 15 October 1994 - Condemned and demanded the immediate and complete the withdrawal of all Iraqi military units recently deployed to southern Iraq | .
Iraq complied.
19. UN Security Council Resolution 661
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 6 August 1990 - Decides restore the authority of the legitimate Government of Kuwait, and decides that all States shall prevent the import into their territories of all commodities and products originating in Iraq or Kuwait. |
Relates to Gulf War I not to Gulf War II.
20. UN Security Council Resolution 662
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 9 August 1990 - Decides that annexation of Kuwait by Iraq under any form and whatever pretext has no legal validity, and demands that Iraq rescind its actions purporting to annex Kuwait. |
Relates to Gulf War I not to Gulf War II.
21. UN Security Council Resolution 664
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 18 August 1990 - Demands that Iraq permit and facilitate the immediate departure from Kuwait and Iraq of the nationals of third countries and grant immediate and continuing access of consular officials to such nationals. |
Relates to Gulf War I not to Gulf War II.
22. UN Security Council Resolution 665
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 25 August 1990 - Calls upon those Member States which are deploying maritime forces to the area to use such measures commensurate to the specific circumstances as may be necessary under the authority of the Security Council to halt all inward and outward maritime shipping. |
Enforcement of sanctions.
23. UN Security Council Resolution 666
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 13 September 1990 - Requests the Secretary-General to use his good offices to facilitate the delivery and distribution of foodstuffs to Kuwait and Iraq in order to relieve human suffering. |
Humanitarian.
24. UN Security Council Resolution 667
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 16 September 1990 - Strongly condemns aggressive acts perpetrated by Iraq against diplomatic premises and personnel in Kuwait, including the abduction of foreign nationals, and demands that Iraq immediately protect the safety and well-being of diplomatic and consular personnel and premises in Kuwait and in Iraq. |
Diplomatic Immunity.
25. UN Security Council Resolution 669
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 24 September 1990 - Entrusts the Committee established under resolution 661 (1990) concerning the situation between Iraq and Kuwait with the task of examining requests for assistance under the provisions of Article 50 of the Charter of the United Nations and making recommendations to the President of the Security Council for appropriate action. |
Special economic problems arising...
26. UN Security Council Resolution 670
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 25 September 1990 - Decides that all States shall deny permission to any aircraft to take off from their territory if the aircraft would carry any cargo to or from Iraq or Kuwait other than food in humanitarian circumstances, and shall deny permission to any aircraft destined to land in Iraq or Kuwait, whatever its State of registration, to overfly its territory |
Enforcement of sanctions.
27. UN Security Council Resolution 674
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 29 October 1990 - Demands that the Iraqi authorities and occupying forces immediately cease and desist from taking third State nationals hostage, and mistreating and oppressing Kuwaiti and third State nationals. |
Gulf War I
28. UN Security Council Resolution 677
on situation between Iraq and Kuwait...
| Quote: | | 28 November 1990 - Condemns the attempts by Iraq to alter the demographic composition of the population of Kuwait and to destroy the civil records maintained by the legitimate Government of Kuwait. |
Gulf War I
29. US, Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338) “Regime Change necessary” (Clinton)
| Quote: | | President George W. Bush has often referred to the Act and its findings to argue that the Clinton Administration supported regime change in Iraq and further that it believed that Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction. |
Once again its those WMD, thin on the ground but there's a whole rash of them in Cowboy's celebrated "short list of reasons laid out by Congress"
30. Statements made directly to Iraq on Sept 12th, 2002 that called (from the UN) for the Security Resolutions to be adhered to, or be threatened by use of force backed by the UN. A Diplomatic “Verbal Warning”
Which Security Resolutions do you refer to, Cowboy? The same ones that refer to the WMD?
31. Public Law 107-40
Authorization for Use of Military Force September 18, 2001
| Quote: | To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.
Whereas, on September 11, 2001, acts of treacherous violence were committed against the United States and its citizens; and... |
This was clearly to do with the 911 attacks in which Iraq had no part, yet you have the cheek to cite it as a reason for the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Don't you ever weary of showing what a LIAR you are, Cowboy? Perhaps I shouldn't judge you too harshly - you have to work with the material that AIPAC gives you.
(32. Not Listed, but the final UN Security Council Resolution 1441 came after this Congressional document)
| Quote: | Resolution 1441 specifically stated:
That Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs), but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by its troops in 1991.
That this represented Iraq's final opportunity to comply with disarmament requirements. In accordance with the previous Resolutions, this meant Iraq not only had to verify the existence or destruction of its remaining unaccounted-for WMD stockpiles, but also had to ensure that all equipment, plans, and materials useful for the resumption of WMD programs was likewise turned over or verified as destroyed.
That "...false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq’s obligations". |
So much mention of the WMD, which reappear like a rash all over Cowboy's "short list of reasons laid out by Congress". He can supply no LINK for this 'list' or refuses to do so. He uses this 'list' to support his ridiculous claim that the WMD were not the main, compelling reason to invade Iraq.
In the above list the WMD are mentioned, directly or indirectly some thirteen times, ie in 12 points.
Gulf War I, the liberation of Kuwait, is the subject of some 15 of the above points.
That leaves five points in the above 'short list' that do not concern either WMD or Gulf War I, the liberation of Kuwait. How does Cowboy come to the ridiculous conclusion the WMD were not the main and compelling reason for the attack on Iraq? He is without doubt the most blatant BULLSHITTER that ever composed a message on WWE. | | | | | ©2002-2009 WarWithoutEnd.co.uk |
