| Author | Message | | Bolero | | Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: Why should denial of the Holocaust be a crime? |
| http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/08/30/why-should-denial-of-the-holocaust-be-a-crime/
Why should denial of the Holocaust be a crime?
30. August 2006
Watching the Zionist propaganda; I received from them today an alert from the Zionist group (Giyus) to vote “Yes” in a poll by BBC History Magazine that asks “Do you think holocaust denial should be made illegal in Britain?” Of course I voted “NO”. This is why:
Holocaust denial views only have as much substance as you allow them. There are people who think that the world is flat; God does not exist; the Sun goes around the Earth, etc… Aren’t these more fundamental things than the Holocaust? Maybe, maybe not. But why one can speak about all these but not denial of the Holocaust? If people like David Irving and others are crazy or evil then why not make the answers to their allegations widely available and allow people to reach their own conclusions? Why does opponents to Holocaust denial feel so compelled to lock people and criminalize anyone who denies the Holocaust as its presented by Zionist, if they know that they can destroy all their arguments with simple facts? I don’t understand why nothing should ever be taboo from debate in a democratic country?! Anything and everything should be open to debate; isn’t this what democracy is teaching us? Why don’t you leave it for people and time to see how many ‘facts’ can be confirmed as a myth as usually happens throughout history?
On the one hand, is it the role of any state to set out what are facts and what is open to debate? How they arrive at the number of six million? Is it a state secret? Is it a God’s word? Is it a myth? Must it be public and open to challenge or not? If not, why? Why God existence can be challenged, but not the Holocaust? The principle of free speech rests on the notion that, through open public debate, rational people are most likely to arrive at the truth. However, protection of citizens comes before freedom of speech in a democracy; we understand that, but do denying the Holocaust in public debate, endanger their minorities? I guess not. Otherwise, why don’t they consider same when they accuse Muslims of being terrorist? Don’t they endanger Muslims minorities? I guess they did. Or it’s ok if they are Muslims to screw them upside down but wrong if they are Zionists to question anything they claim?
Everybody has the right to their own opinion, even if they’re wrong. This was one of the great gifts from Brits to Americans. It is sad now to see Brits and other democracies; willing to put an “except” on the right to speak freely. Once you start limiting speech in any way you open the door to future speech limiters.
I agree that free speech is a right that should be vigorously defended up to the point at which it becomes offensive to a large number of people or encourages others to indulge in inappropriate behavior. However, even in democratic society, if the debate is questioning any possibility that the Holocaust never happened; if the nature of the event were not so horrific and so devastating; one has the right to question the facts, for it might be acceptable and I don’t see why such a debate encourage others in inappropriate behaviors that might endanger anyone. In other words, if what Zionists are claiming is true, then what they are afraid of? Proved liars?
Yes, everyone does have the right to free speech, no matter how abhorrent others may find them. That is, after all, the beauty of living in a democratic society. You can’t do much other than pity those who don’t realize that they’re making complete idiots of themselves, in this case the Zionists who are trying to hide the truth and limiting freedom of speech to anything but Holocaust.
The fact that these and similar ranting throughout the world are used by Zionists as justification for dehumanizing victims they killed. By allowing racist speech like Zionist propaganda, you are making it easier for Zionists to enforce ignoring the human casualties resulting from their crimes like those toke place in Lebanon and Palestine. Zionists see no other victims but theirs and no one should ever question or doubt that.
Last but not least, I do not doubt the crimes against Jews (although I doubt the numbers), but what about all other millions killed in the same war by the Nazi? Why does it matter to doubt the Jewish causalities and criminalize doing that while ignoring all others?
I would like to remind you that the Slavic populations of Poles, Russians, Cossacks, Croats, Armenians, Ukrainians, and others have suffered the LARGEST causalities during WWII. Compared to the overall number of their population they lost the largest number of people in comparison to all other nations. And I would like to remind you that they have fallen FIGHTING the Nazis and that the civilian population on occupied territories was punished because of that by massacres and transport to CONCENTRATION CAMPS; not only Jews.
Anyway, don’t forget to vote, “NO.” | |  | | Jefferson Davis | | Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
| Good grief this coming from the Land of Magna Carta, UK common law and constition and Orwell.
Other than the government's desire to limit speech advocating its destruction or to incite should any other disussion be controlled, limited or made illegal?
What really is the goal here and for whose benefit and why and where will it stop? | | | | shorty | | Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:48 pm Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | What really is the goal here and for whose benefit and why and where will it stop? |
Prevent questions to prevent people probing at the truth. We are controlled more easily if we are all confused...works every time. Confusion = No BEING. If everyone shared knowledge and wisdom, if every could understand what it is to just BE, we could advance our race so much. The solution is so simple it really makes me sad to see others so confused in daily life 
Sorry for wondering, had to be said..
As for holocaust denial, it should be obvious why the laws exist... secrets and lies. Theres obviously something they don't want people to know....could it possibly have something to do with the holocaust and its links to the creation of Israel per chance? 
In my opinion it is. Israels conception was designed, and designed to polarize people against each other. Whether or not its linked to something bigger is up to the individual, but i do believe there is more to it than meets the eye. | | | | Bolero | | Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:07 pm Post subject: |
| They are slowly “preparing” the way for these absurd laws to pass in more and more countries.
This is the ONLY event in history which cannot be questioned by scholars, historians, or anyone wishing to research it further. People have actually gone to jail for merely translating a document relating to questioning the holocaust or have been disbarred for holding an “unlawful” holocaust opinion! The Zundel trial in Germany is a further example of the absurdity of these laws—the word “holocaust” cannot be mentioned during the trial.
Holocaust-denial laws are a very convenient way to shut anyone up who might bring up any evidence that might question the holocaust claims—no matter how legitimate. Besides barring access to any debate on this subject, I think part of the reason these laws are in place is to prevent some uncomfortable historical truths from coming to light such as the disproportionate number of Jews who caused or took part in the Ukrainian holocaust, the Katyn massacre, their large participation in the security services in the USSR as well as in Poland and in other nations under Soviet control, etc.
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Lieutenant General Sir Frederick E. Morgan, Chief of the UNRA department Europe, reported that thousands of well-nourished und well-dressed Polish Jews poured into the American occupational zone [of Germany]. The trains are full of Jews from Lodz and other Polish Cities." (Svenska Dagbladet, Jan. 3, 1946) | | | | Jefferson Davis | | Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: |
| If I'm not mistaken, one of the courts even ruled that the truth was not a defense.
It's madness. It's the beginning of a sordid manipulative tyranny to come.
It's still unfathomable to me that a Western liberal country like Britian would even discuss this this idea with any legitimacy. | | | | Edithann | | Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject: |
| That holocaust is their last gasp...but it wont work..no one is taking their's as terrible, in light of the genocide of the Palestinians..slowly and every day by day, and bullet by bullet into the backs of Palestine children...
It's funny, you can not blieve in 'God'..but you can not believe in the holocaust....
Too funny..just too funny...when is Germany going to get around to opening up those archives anyway..I bet they found something and the Zionists have changed their minds...
TATA | | | | smallaxe | | Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | Once you start limiting speech in any way you open the door to future speech limiters. | I believe in free speech. In the UK we have already got a law (‘incitement to hatred against persons on racial or religious grounds’) which is designed to prevent the kind of thing a new holocaust law would deal with. Naturally, that has already placed a limit on what can be said. Surprisingly, this law was passed to protect Muslims from hate speech! However, this law is used to prevent Muslims from preaching sermons of hate but not to police the hate speech that has infected public discourse on Muslims and Arabs.
While I find the atmosphere on WWE can be very combative, the one thing I truly love is the fact that you can say pretty much what you want to here. Can you imagine the PC brigade coming in here and telling us what we can and cannot say, it would be an abomination of our (hopefully) shared ideals of democracy. In society, people have to expect insult and offence. Why does one group of people think they can call upon the law to defend themselves from insult and hate? Ironically a people who make statements such as "The idea is to put Palestinians on a diet but not make them die of hunger." That's hate speech is it not - advertising the state's intention to visit a holocaust on Palestinians?
If denying the holocaust is a form of hate speech which must be outlawed, then outlaw all hate speech. However, it is not necessary for another UK law to be passed as we already have laws designed to prevent it. In fact, one wonders whether passing that law which journos like Melanie Phillips and her ilk seem to have forgotten was intended as a first step towards implementing this law, and all the others that will follow on until there can be no freedom of speech or thought in this country. Before we know it we will be up in court for dissent.
Another point, why single out the Jewish holocaust? There have been other genocides which are just as barbaric such as the Rwandan holocaust or the Armenian holocaust. Why does the Jewish tragedy deserve special treatment, why not include all holocausts? | | | | Bolero | | Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:10 pm Post subject: |
| ... and 102033 voted "yes" for these laws on the BBC site??? Or is that the Hasbara committee and its minions or "honest"reporting.com voting en masse once again? 
| Quote: | | If I'm not mistaken, one of the courts even ruled that the truth was not a defense. |
Talk about standing justice on its head!
German courts have already ruled that in regard to the Holocaust “truth is no defense” and that even if you show that what you said is absolutely true, if it challenges the official Jewish version, you have committed a serious crime. You have “defamed the Jewish people.” Even if you can prove what you say is accurate, you are guilty of “reviling” the Jewish people and therefore face imprisonment. | | | | smallaxe | | Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject: |
| | Bolero I watched that poll for an hour refreshing the page every five minutes and what I saw was very strange. For about half an hour the YES vote remained unchanged at about 95000 and the NO vote, strangely, was going up in increments of about 200. Then suddenly the YES vote jumped from c.95000 to 97000 - just like that! I found it so puzzling I got my daughter to come and watch it with me. Initially, I thought the NO vote was being manipulated. I think the whole poll has been tampered with. | | | | Bolero | | Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject: |
| | Interesting that you were able to spot those unusual increases. I've been watching it for the last 15 minutes and the same thing is happening: the number for the YES vote has not changed at all, the numbers for the NO vote have increased from 43,378 to 44,561 They must be taking turns padding the figures and they certainly know the outcome. | | | | | ©2002-2009 WarWithoutEnd.co.uk |
