| Author | Message | | Ilana_Halevy | | Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:03 am Post subject: |
| | dangerousdna wrote: | | Ilana_Halevy wrote: | Why you change subject when you are caught? Arablicking scum.
Before Zionism your Arab masters were living worse than dogs. Avarage life expectancy was less than 25 years. Then it start to improve, especially rapidly after 1967.
Run now dog to your Arabs, get your bone. |
Using that pathetic graph again, Ilana?
MK-ers laughed you off the board with this very same graph, it means nothing  |
This graph unambigiously shows that since the arival of Israel life standards of Falostinians drastically improved, while during the Arab rule they almost did not increase. | |  | | Ilana_Halevy | | Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:09 am Post subject: |
| | dangerousdna wrote: | | Ilana_Halevy wrote: | | Quote: | | It concerns your IDF committing suicide, what are you people trying to do in stopping this? |
WHat it has to do with the issue? Yes, there are suicides, from car accidents die much more Israelis than from terror too. So what???
Do you know that from lack of access to clean water die MILLIONS of your Muslim brothers every year? But you dont care about it, because u are interesting only in attacking Israel. |
Here you go again changing the subject 
What is your gov't doing to help these people?
Surely, there is some type of program dealing with this?
What is happening in your military that makes someone want to take their own life?
That's awfully bad when their biggest enemies are themselve - suicide - the top killer in the IDF |
I already explained that. Military is drastical change of life, when from warm house where everybody loves u and care about you you fall to army undr constant stress where you are zero and everyone scream on you.
how many times should I repeat untill u understand? | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:18 am Post subject: |
| Israel's military has been estimated at 187,000 active duty members.
33 suicides would be a suicide rate of .018%
The suicide rate of males in France is .039%
The suicide rate of males in France is .022% | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:19 am Post subject: |
| Israel's military has been estimated at 187,000 active duty members.
33 suicides would be a suicide rate of .018%
The suicide rate of males in France is .039%
The suicide rate of males in Germany is .022% | | | | Cowboy | | Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:19 am Post subject: |
| Israel's military has been estimated at 187,000 active duty members.
33 suicides would be a suicide rate of .018%
The suicide rate of males in France is .039%
The suicide rate of males in Germany is .022% | | | | Phoenix | | Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:10 pm Post subject: |
| | Worldwide suicide rates have increased by 60% over the past 45 years and suicide is amongst the three leading causes of death worldwide. So IDF suicide rates are not all that unusual given the overall picture. | | | | Diceros | | Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:56 pm Post subject: |
| Guys , Comparisions is always extremely dodgy, no two national pressures are alike. I also think there's something screwing with your reasoning. By using the national figures of France/German with only IDF is bound to lead to false conclusions.
If you feel you MUST draw comparisons , then used French/German servicemens suicide figures, dont you think so ?
--
IMO a more rational approach would've been to establish whether IDF figures have drastically increased in recent years.
----------------
By Israeli past stardards it seems that the national figures are also a cause for concern.
"Poverty and war add to Israel's surging suicide rate
LEORA EREN FRUCHT
Jerusalem Post Service May 2003
The recent rise in recession-related suicides has social scientists and mental-health professionals concerned about the economy's effect on the public.
He was the envy of many Israeli youngsters -- a boy with a promising future, it seemed. But Lior Almaliah didn't feel that way on April 8 when a serviceman showed up at his Petah Tikva home to disconnect the electricity because of unpaid bills.
Upset, he called his mother at work, and she promptly went to Israel Electric to pay the debt. But by the time the power was restored, it was too late. The despondent teenager, Israel's national youth judo champion, had hung himself with his judo belt.
"Mother, I don't want to be a burden on you," wrote the 15-year-old in a suicide note. "They turned off the electricity an hour ago, and I can't surf the Net. I'm sorry, but I can't go on any longer "
Almaliah was raised by his single mother, who just managed to eke out a living; the high school student worked part-time in a grocery store to help support the two of them.
"I knew he faced economic hardship, like in many households," said the boy's longtime judo coach, Nati Capri, after news of his death. "But I never felt a sense of desperation from him. I am shocked."
A week earlier, Labor and Social Affairs Minister Zevulun Orlev informed the Knesset that the number of suicides in Israel had risen 65 percent in one year -- with 100 more citizens killing themselves in 2002 than in the previous year. Orlev called for an investigation to determine "whether there is a connection between suicide acts and economic distress, especially in the middle and lower class."
While there is a connection between the wave of suicides and the bad economy, experts say these people most likely already possess self-destructive urges, which could have been triggered by another major setback.
"Suicide is very complex. The note the victim leaves does not always reflect the real or only reason for the act," explains Dr. Yitzhak Kadman, director of the National Council for the Child. "Often the reason that is given is the trigger, the straw that breaks the camel's back."
Kadman cites the common example of a young man who kills himself because "his girlfriend left him." "You can't say that that was the entire reason since there are loads of people who don't kill themselves when their girlfriend leaves them.
"So I wouldn't want to accuse the electric company of being responsible for the suicide of the boy. Suicide is usually the result of inner psychological and emotional processes. It's not as simple as: this is the cause; that's the result.
"Having said that," Kadman adds, "a situation of economic distress can trigger desperate acts -- especially when it involves a sharp drop in a family's standard of living." This can have a particularly overwhelming effect on children because they have fewer tools for coping than adults have, he says.
"Children often feel a great sense of personal responsibility for the economic situation of the family, even wrongly assuming that it is somehow 'their fault.' This can have harsh consequences. In Israel, in particular," Kadman notes, "children grow up taking on an exaggerated sense of responsibility, especially for the welfare of their parents."
Kadman predicts the situation will only get worse. "You don't need to be a prophet to see that if the new proposed budget cuts -- which affect the lower and lower-middle class -- are implemented, we will see grave consequences for individuals, including violence. Suicide is one form of violence."
Israel, it would seem, is still in the "early" phase of the recession in which the most vulnerable are considering -- and committing -- suicide.
"Never before have we had as many calls from people contemplating suicide," says David Koren, director of ERAN (a Hebrew acronym for Emotional First Aid), which runs a help hotline. The month of March saw a 50 percent increase in calls for help related to economic hardship, compared to March 2002, he says.
"There is a different atmosphere in Israel today than there was in the past. In contrast to other times, what we hear nowadays is a total loss of hope."
For the first time many Israelis feel abandoned by the state, he adds. "It used to be clear that Israel had no homeless people -- unless they were drug addicts or alcoholics. But nowadays, so-called 'normal' people with whom we can identify are finding themselves on the street."
Many parents and grandparents of this generation of Israelis were themselves desperately poor when they came to the country. Few of them contemplated, let alone, committed suicide. What's the difference?
"The difference," says Koren, "is expectation. Many of our parents came to a new country knowing the hardships that awaited them. And, as time went on, their lives improved. They could look forward to a better future for themselves and their children."
Now, says Koren, the situation is just the opposite. During the '90s, Israel experienced an economic boom, along with giddy hopes of achieving peace. Two-and-a-half years ago, both those dreams were shattered.
http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/20315/edition_id/414/format/html/displaystory.html
Bear in mind this wass more than 3 yrs ago. I doubt whether the situation has improved. | | | | dangerousdna | | Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:48 am Post subject: |
| | Cowboy wrote: | | Quote: | | What is happening in your military that makes someone want to take their own life? |
What is the suicide rate in the Israeli military, and how does it compare to the civilian suicide rate in European countries?
Do we need to embarass you once again? As you may recall, when there were all of your claims about suicide in the US military in Iraq, we found that the suicide rate was far less than the civilian suicide rate in most of Europe. Obviously it is more depressing to be European than it is to be helping Iraqis get their freedom. |
The subject is the IDF suicides only
Stick to the subject or keep your maw closed
Nobody can embarrass me CB Shlomo | | | | dangerousdna | | Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:51 am Post subject: |
| | Ilana_Halevy wrote: | | dangerousdna wrote: | | Ilana_Halevy wrote: | | Quote: | | It concerns your IDF committing suicide, what are you people trying to do in stopping this? |
WHat it has to do with the issue? Yes, there are suicides, from car accidents die much more Israelis than from terror too. So what???
Do you know that from lack of access to clean water die MILLIONS of your Muslim brothers every year? But you dont care about it, because u are interesting only in attacking Israel. |
Here you go again changing the subject
What is your gov't doing to help these people?
Surely, there is some type of program dealing with this?
What is happening in your military that makes someone want to take their own life?
That's awfully bad when their biggest enemies are themselve - suicide - the top killer in the IDF |
I already explained that. Military is drastical change of life, when from warm house where everybody loves u and care about you you fall to army undr constant stress where you are zero and everyone scream on you.
how many times should I repeat untill u understand? |
From hearing you tell it Ilana, the Palestinians were the top IDF killer
But, your newspaper has proven you to be a liar | | | | Nobody | | Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:14 am Post subject: |
| Anybody who's conscious enough to know what they're being used for should object, and thumbs up for those Israeli's who have, I salute you.... 
http://www.afsc.org/israel-palestine/israelicos.htm
Israeli Conscientious Objector Update
By The Refuser Parents Forum*
Two more conscientious objectors or "occupation refusers", entered military jail on August 10, 2005. Shaul Mograbi-Berger was sentenced for a first term of 21 days. Alex Cohn received the same sentence, but in his case it was a sixth term in jail.
http://www.afsc.org/israel-palestine/news/Refuser-Update.htm
ISRAEL: Feminist conscientious objector Idan Halili sentenced to 14 days imprisonment
War Resisters' International, London, 18 November 2005
http://www.wri-irg.org/news/alerts/msg00053.html
Conscientious objection to military service in Israel:
an unrecognised human right
Report for the Human Rights Committee in relation to Article 18 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
http://www.wri-irg.org/co/co-isr-03.htm | | | | | ©2002-2009 WarWithoutEnd.co.uk |
