| Author | Message | | Phoenix | | Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:58 pm Post subject: |
| | Ilana_Halevy wrote: | | Quote: | | You is guilty in genocide of black Sudanese - Arabs who kill them or Israel? |
I meant who is guilty... |
Its not a simple case of any one person/country being guilty Ilana. Sudan is a complicated situation, with many factions involved in the ongoing conflict - many of them outsiders.
The article I posted and which I have put a link below if you're interested, blames the role of the US government, the US military, the UN, the US media, humanitarian aid organisations and powerful multinational corporations and security and intelligence operatives. Israel is also implicated but so are others.
Here is the link if you want to find out more:
http://www.allthingspass.com/uploads/doc-43matrix_sudan.doc | |  | | Ilana_Halevy | | Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:21 pm Post subject: |
| Phoenix, everything started in 1980, when Sudanese govrnment declared program of Arabization and Islamization (they did not even hide their intentions). Since then Sudanese army started to slaughter everyone who did not want to be Arabizied or Islamizied. Were some who resisted it.
It's shameful that there are persons who blame in massacres thouse who resist and thouse who help them and not Sudanese Arabs government. SImply sick.
all the best, and bye
Ilana | | | | Phoenix | | Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:32 pm Post subject: |
| | War doesn't occur in a vaccum Ilana. And in the case of Sudan, there are several factors involved. Including Arab-Israeli interests, the struggle for control in Central Africa and several other neighouring conflicts and it would be irresponsible to ignore, dismiss or deny the role of international forces in a country as ideologically hostile and strategically lucrative as Sudan. | | | | Ravenhawk | | Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:00 pm Post subject: Israel and Sudan |
| [quote]You blamed Israel for supporting Sudanese resistance. Let's suppose it is correct. So I am asking you: who is to be blamed in murder of million Afghanians - Soviets, that killed Afghanians or Americans that supplied weapons to Afghanian resistance?? Unable to answer dumbhead?
[quote]
No, I didn't blame Israel for supporting the Sudanese Liberation Army,
the articles I posted did....that Israel is involved becomes apparent if
the articles are true...
Do you have some kind of problem with FACTS? It's a fact that Israel
began at the earliest stages creating the Sudanese Liberation Movement. The CIA is also a big player. The alliance between Israeli and American covert operations is often a very close relationship these days, with Zionist operatives controlling the American intelligence agency.
The Killing of millions of Afghanians? I think if we examine it in depth
we'll find some Jewish/Zionist Russian Oligargs behind that whole operation as well...shall we create a separate thread for that examination? I'm game if you are....lets find and document who was behind the Russian actions in Afghanistan.
But perhaps it is a waste of time and energy to read things, and respond to those who automatically resort to name calling and personal attacks when the sins of Israel and America are exposed.
Ravenhawk | | | | Ravenhawk | | Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:08 pm Post subject: began in the 80's? not so... |
| Ilana wrote: "everything started in 1980, when Sudanese govrnment declared program of Arabization and Islamization (they did not even hide their intentions). Since then Sudanese army started to slaughter everyone who did not want to be Arabizied or Islamizied. Were some who resisted it. "
Not according to what has been posted and documented Ilana...
it began in the 1960's while Israel remained in the Communist sphere
and focused on actions in Africa rather than supporting the other war America was fighting in Vietnam.
Meanwhile Israel and the US stood behind the scenes and supplied money, training, and manpower in the 1980's. As long as it's non Jews being killed, Israel doesn't care. To create the Messiah, who according the Chabad Lubavitch is the Jewish people in their own bodies, it is necessary for them to either genocide or enslave all non Jews. We are seeing attempts at that now, not only in Africa, but in the Middle East as a whole
at the moment.
Ravenhawk | | | | Ilana_Halevy | | Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject: |
| Ravenhawk
| Quote: | The Killing of millions of Afghanians? I think if we examine it in depth
we'll find some Jewish/Zionist Russian Oligargs behind that whole operation as well...shall we create a separate thread for that examination? I'm game if you are....lets find and document who was behind the Russian actions in Afghanistan. |
You are even more dumn than your Arab masters. It was USSR who attacked Afghanistan there were not any Oligarchs then. Remove your tongue from Arabs go to library and learn something to not make joke of yourself shameless disgusting creature.
| Quote: | Not according to what has been posted and documented Ilana...
it began in the 1960's while Israel remained in the Communist sphere
and focused on actions in Africa rather than supporting the other war America was fighting in Vietnam. |
massacres began in 1980, when Sudanese started their Arabization.
Phoenix
| Quote: | | War doesn't occur in a vaccum Ilana. And in the case of Sudan, there are several factors involved. Including Arab-Israeli interests, the struggle for control in Central Africa and several other neighouring conflicts and it would be irresponsible to ignore, dismiss or deny the role of international forces in a country as ideologically hostile and strategically lucrative as Sudan. |
War started when Sudanese began their Arabization program in 1980 - fact, that noone can deny. Please read. | | | | Ilana_Halevy | | Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:19 pm Post subject: |
| In September 1983, as part of an Islamicization campaign, President Nimeiri announced his decision to incorporate traditional Islamic punishments drawn from Shari’a (Islamic Law) into the penal code. Southerners and other non-Muslims living in the north were also subjected to these punishments. These events, and other longstanding grievances, in part led to a resumption of the civil war that was held in abeyance since 1972, and the war continues until today.
After the 1985 coup, the new government rescinded President Nimeiri's 1983 decree and made other significant overtures aimed at reconciling north and south but did nor rescind the so-called September Laws of the Nimeiri regime instituting Shari’a Law. In May 1986, the Sadiq al-Mahdi government began peace negotiations with the SPLA, led by Col. John Garang de Mabior. In that year the SPLA and a number of Sudanese political parties met in Ethiopia and agreed to the “Koka Dam” declaration, which called for abolishing Islamic law and convening a constitutional conference. In 1988, the SPLA and the DUP agreed on a peace plan calling for the abolition of military pacts with Egypt and Libya, freezing of Islamic law, an end to the state of emergency, and a cease-fire. A constitutional conference would then be convened.
Following an ultimatum from the armed forces in February 1989, the Sadiq al-Mahdi government approved this peace plan and engaged in several rounds of talks with the SPLA. A constitutional conference was tentatively planned for September 1989. The military government, which took over on June 30, 1989, however, repudiated the DUP/SPLA agreement and state it wished to negotiate with the SPLA without preconditions. Negotiating sessions in August and December 1989 brought little progress.
The SPLA is in control of large areas of Equatoria, Bahr al Ghazal, and Upper Nile provinces and also operates in the southern portions of Darfur, Kordofan, and Blue Nile provinces. The government controls a number of the major southern towns and cities, including Juba, Wau, and Malakal. An informal cease-fire in May broke down in October 1989, and fighting has continued since then.
The Sadiq al-Mahdi government in March 1989 agreed with the UN and donor nations (including the U.S.) on a plan called Operation Lifeline Sudan (OLS), under which some 100,000 tons of food was moved into both government and SPLA-held areas of the Sudan, and widespread starvation was averted. Phase II of OLS to cover 1990 was approved by both the government and the SPLA in March 1990. In 1991, Sudan faced a 2-year drought and food shortage across the entire country. The U.S., UN, and other donors attempted to mount a coordinated international relief effort in both north and south Sudan to prevent a catastrophe. However, due to Sudan’s human rights abuses and its pro-Iraqi stance during the Gulf War, many donors cut much of their aid to the Sudan.
In August 1991, internal dissention among the rebels led opponents of Colonel Garang’s leadership of the SPLA to form the so-called Nasir faction of the rebel army. In September 1992, William Nyuon Bany formed a second rebel faction, and in February 1993, Kerubino Kwanyin Bol formed a third rebel faction. On April 5, 1993, the three dissident rebel factions announced a coalition of their groups called SPLA United at a press conference in Nairobi, Kenya. After 1991, the factions clashed occasionally and thus, the rebels lost much of their credibility with the West.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/sudan-civil-war2.htm | | | | Phoenix | | Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:13 pm Post subject: |
| I'm sorry to tell this to you Ilana but for someone who sees no problem with the repression and ethnic cleansing of one peoples by another, I'd rather you stick your nose somewhere else when it comes to the issue of Sudan. You are no humanist Ilana because you clearly approve of human rights abuses committed in the name of Israel - its clear that you are unashamedly using Africa and its plight as just another means of expanding your sick war on Islam.
This is a FAKE WAR and has nothing whatsoever to do with religion or race. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Northern Sudanese and aSoutherner, nor would you be able to tell the difference between an Arab or an African Sudanese because BOTH ARE THE SAME. They are intermingled. And you wouldn't know that one killing the other is Muslim or Christian because there have been Christians serving the NIF and Muslims serving the SPLA.
The SPLA, which is supported by America, and has done a lot of harm to its own people - engage in repression, killings, child labour, using kids to carry arms. The people being killed in Darfur are ALL MUSLIMS and the Janjaweed those so-called Arab milita are no less different than the victims.
So if I were you, I would concentrate on the human rights abuses that are going on in your own backyard - its clear that you have no interest in the human rights of Africans.
US Money Keeps Sudan Extremists Alive
By W. Madsen
03 May 2004
While the Bush administration is evangelistically pursuing its global 'war on terrorism', military armaments and training it provides to the Chadian military are being used to keep groups liked to al-Qaeda alive in the Sudan. Why is the US administration turning the blind eye to the ongoing genocide in Sudan's Darfur region, perpetrated largely by al-Qaeda front groups using US military equipment? News Insider columnist Wayne Madsen investigates.
http://www.newsinsider.org/madsta/bush_funding_al_qaeda_minions.html | | | | Ilana_Halevy | | Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:44 pm Post subject: |
| | Quote: | | You are no humanist Ilana because you clearly approve of human rights abuses committed in the name of Israel |
I don't see any human right abuses in the name of Israel. On contrary, Israel is treating Arabs better than anyone else. I abought proofs already. You can aslo ask any Israeli Arab, where he wants to live - in Israel or in Arafatland, and he we reply that in Israel.
| Quote: | | its clear that you are unashamedly using Africa and its plight as just another means of expanding your sick war on Islam. |
I have nothing against Islam. Koran is very Zionist book, for example. Even more Zionist than myself. I admire Ottoman empire. However I do hate Pan-Arabism and Pan-Islamism. They are threat fro Muslim countries first of all.
| Quote: | | This is a FAKE WAR and has nothing whatsoever to do with religion or race. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Northern Sudanese and aSoutherner, nor would you be able to tell the difference between an Arab or an African Sudanese because BOTH ARE THE SAME. They are intermingled. And you wouldn't know that one killing the other is Muslim or Christian because there have been Christians serving the NIF and Muslims serving the SPLA. |
Although ethnically they are virtually same, there is one big difference: South Sudanese are already Arabizied, while North are not. Not all Muslims are Arabs and Arabs hate them. Like it or no, but war started when Sudanese government declared Arabization program.
Only complete one celled idiot can think, that such a bloody civil war can be created from outside. By Bush, Sharon or Santa Claus. Tell me, if Israel will arm Scotts will they start civil war in Britain? You can give to Scotts aircraft carrier but they still won't start any war. Because civil war never starts from outside insightment it needs deep internal reasons. Don't know why I waste time on you, explaining things that even donkey can undersrtand.
I am sure, that if Arabs will analy rape your mom infront of your eyes, you will also blame Israel in it.
yalla bye | | | | Alpha | | Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Israel and Sudan |
| Zionists like Ilana always have problems with the facts!
[quote="Ravenhawk"][quote]You blamed Israel for supporting Sudanese resistance. Let's suppose it is correct. So I am asking you: who is to be blamed in murder of million Afghanians - Soviets, that killed Afghanians or Americans that supplied weapons to Afghanian resistance?? Unable to answer dumbhead?
| Quote: |
No, I didn't blame Israel for supporting the Sudanese Liberation Army,
the articles I posted did....that Israel is involved becomes apparent if
the articles are true...
Do you have some kind of problem with FACTS? It's a fact that Israel
began at the earliest stages creating the Sudanese Liberation Movement. The CIA is also a big player. The alliance between Israeli and American covert operations is often a very close relationship these days, with Zionist operatives controlling the American intelligence agency.
The Killing of millions of Afghanians? I think if we examine it in depth
we'll find some Jewish/Zionist Russian Oligargs behind that whole operation as well...shall we create a separate thread for that examination? I'm game if you are....lets find and document who was behind the Russian actions in Afghanistan.
But perhaps it is a waste of time and energy to read things, and respond to those who automatically resort to name calling and personal attacks when the sins of Israel and America are exposed.
Ravenhawk | | | | | | ©2002-2009 WarWithoutEnd.co.uk |
