War Without End

Guest · Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:08 am Post subject:

For the truth on the USS Liberty attack ...

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stated the parrot

Guest · Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:13 am Post subject:

Guest · Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:14 am Post subject:

And we are supposed to believe a Zionist Jew like Tierney...

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so that's the best one can do? tierney is jewish? tierney is a zionist jew also?

appreciate the continued demonstration of foolishness -- it's the hallmark of this forum.

Guest

By Way of Deception, by Justin Raimondo:

http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/middle-east-and-asia/2002/12/13/by-way-of-deception-by-justin-raimondo.php

Guest · Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:26 am Post subject:

Guest

The Zionist truth distorters about the USS Liberty attack don't even like to talk about the following Navy Times article if they can help it:

REMEMBER THE USS LIBERTY

This is in rememberance to our valiant American naval men who lost their precious lives in a brutal attack on the USS Liberty June 8, 1967. Also, to the brave men who were wounded and kept the Liberty from sinking. Israel didn't expect such a formidable effort as our naval men showed them that day.

Israel Attack On USS Liberty
'No Accident' Says Helms

By Bryant Jordan Staff Writer
Marine Corps Times
From Navy Times
7-7-2

Thirty-five years after Israeli air and naval forces attacked a lightly armed U.S. Navy spy ship during the Arab-Israeli Six-Day War, the CIA director at the time and the legal counsel to the Navy's court of inquiry say the attack was deliberate. "It was no accident," former CIA director Richard Helms said May 29, bucking that agency's June 13, 1967, report that indicated the incident could have been a mistake. Retired Navy legal counsel Capt. Ward Boston says he and the court's president, the late Rear Adm. Isaac "Ike" Kidd, always believed Israeli forces knowingly attacked the Liberty. "I feel the Israelis knew what they were doing. They knew they were shooting at a U.S. Navy ship," said Boston, who lives in Coronado, Calif. "That's the bottom line. I don't care how they tried to get out of it." The attack killed 34 men and wounded 172 others, and sparked a long-running controversy: Did Israel knowingly try to sink the American ship or did it believe the ship was an Egyptian vessel? Officially, the Navy exonerated Israel on June 18, 1967 - 10 days after the attack - when the Navy court of inquiry found that available evidence indicated the attack was a case of mistaken identity. THE COURT OF INQUIRY Boston said Kidd told him he believed the attack was deliberate and that the Israelis knew the ship was American. That flies in the face of the findings of Kidd's court, and also what the author of a new book on the Liberty says Kidd told him in interviews in the early 1990s. A. Jay Cristol, a federal judge in Florida and retired Navy aviator who also served in the service's Judge Advocate General's Corps, is the author of the upcoming "The Liberty Incident." "Kidd told me an entirely different story," said Cristol, whose new book is dedicated to Kidd, who died in 1999. Cristol said that during one interview with Kidd in December 1990, Kidd related that when he brought the court's report to then-Chief of Naval Operations Adm. David Lamar McDonald, the CNO asked him, "Ike, was it intentional?" "Ike said, 'No, Admiral,'" Cristol recalled. But Boston remembers that when Kidd returned from Washington, he said officials were not interested in hearing the truth. "In military life, you accept the fact that if you're told to shut up, you shut up. We did what we were told," Boston said. He explained that he is willing to talk now because "everyone else is shooting their mouth off." Boston said he does not know whether his beliefs were shared by the other members of the court, Capts. Bert M. Atkinson Jr. and Bernard J. Lauff. Lauff could not be located for comment. Atkinson died in 1999. But Boston's statements do put him now in the camp of retired Adm. Merlin Staring, who as a captain and staff legal officer in London was initially told to review the court's report. Staring said June 3 that the report was taken from him before he finished his review, but based on what he had seen, the evidence did not support the contention that the attack was an accident. Staring concedes he still has not read the entire report. Staring, who went on to become the Navy's top JAG officer, is now part of a newly formed Liberty Alliance, which includes former CNO and Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Thomas Moorer and two Marine Medal of Honor recipients, Gen. Ray Davis and Col. Mitchell Paige. The group wants a full congressional investigation into the attack and is lobbying military organizations, including the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the American Legion, hoping to garner support among their members, said Tito Howard, the group's executive director. SURVIVORS ALLEGE CONSPIRACY Many Liberty survivors and their supporters long have maintained that the attack was deliberate and that the Kidd report excluded testimony from crew members that would have shown that. Boston recalled that testimony was taken from crew members who said the Israelis fired on life rafts when they were put into the water. The court's report includes testimony indicating the shooting of the life rafts was incidental, occurring when the ship was strafed by Israeli jets. Some allege Israel wanted the spy ship sunk to ensure it did not pick up communications showing Israel was planning to seize the Golan Heights from Syria. Others say it was to prevent Liberty from intercepting communications dealing with an alleged Israeli massacre of Egyptian POWs in the Sinai. Some Liberty survivors and supporters claim the U.S. government covered up the incident to avoid a conflict with Israel that could have cost the Johnson administration support among Jewish voters and supporters. Subsequent administrations and Congresses have avoided a thorough airing of the incident for the same reasons, they say. But Cristol says there have been 10 U.S. investigations, ranging from the court of inquiry and the CIA's report to several conducted by House and Senate committees. Five drew no conclusions regarding Israel, according to a list compiled by Cristol, while others accepted that it was an accident. The most recent official look at the incident was in 1991, when the House Armed Services subcommittee on investigations found no evidence to support the Liberty survivors' claim that Israel attacked the ship deliberately. REPORTS AND RECOLLECTIONS The CIA's report, the earliest of those assembled, held open the possibility that the attack was a case of mistaken identity - the finding that the Kidd court went on to make five days later - though it did not present that as a conclusion. In the June 13, 1967, report, the CIA stated that "an overzealous pilot" could have mistaken the Liberty for an Egyptian ship, the El Quesir. Helms, the former CIA director, declined to discuss the incident at length. "I've done all I can. I don't want to spend the rest of my life in court" testifying about the incident, he said. Mike Weeks, a naval aviation writer and amateur historian who studied the official Navy communications that occurred during and after the attack and believes it was an accident, said there is more information on the Liberty still classified and believes the government should release all of it. "Just put it out there and see how it flows," he said. "The bottom line, all this stuff ought to be let loose, for heaven's sake." ___ Bryant Jordan is a staff writer for Marine Corps Times. Should Congress reopen the investigation into the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty? The Israelis claim the attack was a mistake; some veterans contend it was deliberate. As of 8:40 PDT Sunday, 67% say YES.

http://members.aol.com/w4lmk/sdari/

http://www.ussliberty.org

Body of Secrets
provides new Liberty revelations
http://www.ussliberty.org/margolis.txt

A report based on eyewitness accounts from the Israeli press
http://www.ussliberty.org/washrp96.txt

Liberty web sites by other USS Liberty crewmen
http://www.ussliberty.org/crewsite.htm

Memorials to our lost shipmates
http://www.ussliberty.org/memorial.txt

Awards and Medals
http://www.ussliberty.org/awards.htm

Annual Ceremony by No Greater Love
http://www.ussliberty.org/greater.htm

Did Israel commit one war crime to after another?
http://www.ussliberty.org/washrp96.txt

Statement by JCS Chairman Admiral Thomas H. Moorer
http://www.ussliberty.org/moorer3.txt

Charley Reese reviews new book about USS Liberty
http://www.ussliberty.org/reese.htm

New evidence on USS Liberty:

http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/middle-east-and-asia/2002/10/31/new-evidence-on-uss-liberty.php
sc&start=20

US/UN Double Standard When It Comes to Israel
http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/middle-east-and-asia/2002/09/15/us-un-double-standard-when-it-comes-to-israel.php

War Without End :: View topic - VFW RESOLUTION DEMANDING ISRAELI USS LIBERTY INVESTIGATION:

http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/middle-east-and-asia/2002/09/20/vfw-resolution-demanding-israeli-uss-liberty-investigation.php

AGTR-5

Sham Naval Court of Inquiry (into the USS Liberty Attack)

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+_+_+

The Naval Court of Inquiry was a major event in 1967. And
Ward Boston was a major player in the Court. And now we find
out that the survivors were right, the court was a fraud and
a sham, with the outcome directed by the U.S. government.
I am puzzled why the media does not treat Ward Boston's words
for what they are worth! This is a huge story and should be
in every paper in the country. The USS Liberty attack was
covered up by the U.S. Government!

This is exactly how I feel as well.. Believe me as there definitely is some kind of conspiracy going on in the US media/press regarding the Liberty attack and ongoing cover-up because I contacted all the major press/media establishments (Washington Post, Fox News Channel, Associated Press, CNN, etc.) about that above referenced Navy Times article (with Captain Boston's comments conveying the cover-up), and not one has covered it to my info. We are talking about a 35 year cover-up and documents still classified at the NSA which could potentially further reveal proof of such... Look at what James Bamford (with his "Body of Secrets" book) has already revealed by getting access to those NSA documents that he was able to as there are others that are still classified some 35 years later, but why as what are the Israeli and American governments stilling wanting to keep from getting out so many years later?

Look at the following article about James Bamford's ("Body of Secrets") book:

Body of Secrets
provides new Liberty revelations:

http://www.ussliberty.org/margolis.txt

http://www.randomhouse.com/features/bamford/

A report based on eyewitness accounts from the Israeli press:

http://www.ussliberty.org/washrp96.txt

Liberty web sites by other USS Liberty crewmen
http://www.ussliberty.org/crewsite.htm

Memorials to our lost shipmates
http://www.ussliberty.org/memorial.txt

Awards and Medals

http://www.ussliberty.org/awards.htm

Annual Ceremony by No Greater Love

http://www.ussliberty.org/greater.htm

Did Israel commit one war crime to after another?
http://www.ussliberty.org/washrp96.txt

Statement by JCS Chairman Admiral Thomas H. Moorer
http://www.ussliberty.org/moorer3.txt

Charley Reese reviews new book about USS Liberty
http://www.ussliberty.org/reese.htm

AP Review of Cristol's Bogus Book ("The Liberty Inciden

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A scorching review of A. Jay Cristol's "The Liberty Incident" was on the
Associated Press news wire August 2, 2002.

The review is reproduced below, but we do not know what newspapers actually printed it.

=======================================================
Friday, August 2, 2002
`Liberty' attack still a mystery

By DAVID SMYTH
Associated Press

On June 8, 1967, Israeli warplanes and gunboats almost destroyed but did
not sink the USS Liberty.

Even after 35 years, it seems nothing can douse the smoldering dispute
about that attack on the nearly defenseless U.S. intelligence-gathering
vessel. In fact, The Liberty Incident, by A. Jay Cristol, will probably fan
the flames of controversy.

Thirty-four Americans were killed and 172 wounded in the attack. At 69
percent of the crew, it was one of the highest casualty rates ever suffered
by a U.S. Navy vessel.

The focus of the dispute is: Was the attack accidental or intentional?
Israel claimed its forces had mistaken the Liberty for an Egyptian
horse-transport a few miles off the Egyptian coast during the 1967
Arab-Israeli war, and apologized. The Johnson administration accepted the
apology and did not formally challenge the explanation.

However, knowledgeable contemporaries have long claimed the attack was
deliberate. They include, among others, former Secretary of State Dean
Rusk; former CIA Director Richard Helms; former National Security
Administration Director Marshall Carter; one-time presidential advisers
George Ball and Lucius Battle; the Liberty's captain, Cmdr. William
McGonagle; and surviving crew members.

More recently, Capt. Ward Boston, legal counsel to the 1967 naval court of
inquiry presided over by Rear Adm. Isaac Kidd, has spoken up. On June 26,
Boston told a Navy Times reporter he and Kidd believed the Israelis knew
they were attacking an American ship. The court itself, an internal naval
review, did not address the matter of Israeli responsibility.

Curiously, Cristol, whose book is devoted wholeheartedly to the "clear
conclusion" the attack was accidental, there being "no competent evidence
to the contrary," has dedicated his work to Kidd. And he says Kidd told him
he always believed the Israeli attack was accidental. Kidd died in 1999, so
the discrepancy with Boston's statement remains unresolved.

Lt. Cmdr. James Ennes, the Liberty's deck officer during the attack and
author of the book Assault on the Liberty, says Kidd repeatedly encouraged
him to challenge claims of an accident. Cristol apparently interviewed very
few Liberty crew members. He cites no interviews with a dozen who say the
Liberty's life rafts were machine-gunned by the Israeli gunboats, nor with
others who say the Liberty was overflown by an Israeli helicopter filled
with armed men.

Cristol says he was given liberal access to Israeli officials and records,
thanks to Israeli navy friends. He reports an Israeli reconnaissance plane
identified the Liberty as an American ship eight hours before the attack
and Lt. Cmdr. Uri Meretz then specifically identified it as the Liberty. A
marker representing the ship was placed on the plotting table in the war room.

Five hours later - three hours before the attack - the marker was removed,
and this, it is alleged, led to the mistaken assault.

Cristol dismisses various possible motives for an intentional Israeli
attack. One was Israel's need to prevent American foreknowledge of its
impending invasion of Syria's Golan Heights, a move opposed by U.S. policy.
Another was the desire to cover up a massacre of Egyptian prisoners at El
Arish, a few miles from the Liberty.

Members of the Liberty Veterans Association have long complained none of the U.S. investigations was ever convened to discover whether the attack was deliberate. They note that even the initial Navy Court of Inquiry took no testimony from the crew about possible Israeli culpability, leaving that issue to Congress and the State Department, which ignored the question.

John Borne, in an academic study of the Liberty incident, points out that
this is the only peacetime attack on a U.S. Navy vessel that did not have a formal congressional investigation.

According to the Navy Times, a number of U.S. naval officers are requesting a congressional inquiry. Until this demand is met, and until all secret U.S. government files are released, the Liberty question will probably remain unanswered.

John Borne's Excellent Web Site (about USS Liberty)

http://www.logogo.net/00liberty.htm

VFW RESOLUTION DEMANDING ISRAELI USS LIBERTY
INVESTIGATION:

http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/middle-east-and-asia/2002/09/20/vfw-resolution-demanding-israeli-uss-liberty-investigation.php

*Mutt American · Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:35 am Post subject:

Liberty, Liberty, Liberty.

This string is about Ritter.

You are starting to look like a one-trick pony.

Now here's from a top inspector who isn't bought with hundreds of thousands of dollars of oiul money...

Friday Dec. 6, 2002; 11:05 a.m. EST
Saddam Has Nukes, Ex-Weapons Inspector Says

A former U.N. weapons inspector who was renowned for his ability to ferret out Iraqi weapons violations during the late 1990's charged point blank on Thursday that Saddam Hussein now has nuclear weapons.

"I have no doubt that he has nukes," Bill Tierney told nationally syndicated radio host Sean Hannity.

"He's going to use non-persistent chemicals against his own people to put down an insurrection," the ace inspector predicted, before adding chillingly, "He'll use bio and nukes against us."

Stunned by the revelation, the radio host pressed for confirmation:

HANNITY: You have no doubt that he has nukes? Or he's close (to getting them)?

TIERNEY: I have no doubt that he has nukes.

HANNITY: You think he has nuclear weapons.

TIERNEY: Yes.

HANNITY: Why are you the only (former weapons inspector) saying that?

TIERNEY: Well, there's a few more. One reason why is, during the 90's in the intelligence community, there was just a pathological risk aversion. The reason being was that our president at the time, Bill Clinton, fundamentally changed the purpose of the United States military from fighting and winning wars to crisis management and keeping his poll numbers up.

Now, if you're not out to win, there's no need to take risks. And so what you found is people being very guarded about everything, every kind of assessment you could make. (End of Excerpt)

Before he ran afoul of the system Tierney had built a powerful reputation for credibility, prompting the U.N. to personally recruit him in 1996 for the task of inspecting some of Saddam's most sensitive suspected weapons facilities.

But he was forced to resign two years later amidst charges he was spying for the U.S. Tierney now says he was locked out for doing what he figured was his job - giving the Pentagon targets for military action.

"What I did was identified those people who have sold their souls to keep Saddam in power. I made it my goal to find every place where they are," Tierney told the London's Daily Mirror in October.

Still, his aggressive pursuit of Saddam's weapons violations won him more than a few fans at U.S. Central Command, where Tierney's boss, Army Brig. Gen. Keith Alexander, wrote in one of his job evaluations: "His ability to consistently seek and identify priority target intelligence information is uncanny and is the characteristic that separates him from his contemporaries."

Tierney told Hannity that a 1997 inspection he attempted to conduct at Saddam's Jabal Makhul presidential palace lead him to suspect that the Iraqi dictator already had the bomb.

"Certain things convinced me that they had proscribed items at this presidential site. That led to the inspection in September 1997 where we were locked out. There was something about that. The just came up and said, 'There will be no inspection. Good Day.' And they walked off."

Tierney said the rebuff was "completely different" from other inspections of sensitive sites, where some sort of compromise was always worked out.

Another sign of sinister activity: As Tierney and his team were being turned away, a U.N. helicopter attempting to overfly Jabal Makhul nearly crashed when an Iraqi official on board lunged at the controls.

"That was a distraction to keep that helicopter from going over to the other side of the mountain to see what they were doing" at the facility, said Tierney.

He described Jabal Makhul as a "gigantic" complex of warehouses and underground tunnels, before noting that last year the London Times reported Saddam was storing nuclear weapons in bunkers in and around the Hamrin Mountains.

"There is only one heavily guarded place in the Hamrin Mountains," Tierney told Hannity. "And that's where we were, Jabal Makhul."

Still, despite efforts by Iraqi officials to keep inspectors away from Jabal Makhul, U.N. officials continued to give Saddam the benefit of the doubt, he complained.

"If you had ambiguous reporting; it could mean he has the nukes, it could mean that he doesn't." he said. "Normally the call would be, 'Oh well, that doesn't confirm so therefore he's still developing. He doesn't have it,'" Tierney said he was told.

The ex-inspector predicted that Saddam would likely use his nukes, "maybe (in) Israel, maybe here."

Calling the current inspections "a complete total waste of time," Tierney warned, "You have a leader of a country who's bent on stealing, killing and destroying. And it is time to resolve the issue and solve it. Crisis management is over."

"There's way too much at stake," he added. "We could lose millions more of our citizens unless we wake up and take care of this."

Guest · Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:46 am Post subject:

*Mutt American · Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:58 am Post subject:

Thanks. I hadn't even noticed that.

IF there WAS a coverup, then somebody ought to know that the Navy Times is not exactly a role model for free press or dissenting opinion.

dangerousdna · Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2002 3:12 am Post subject:

War Without End

The global war against terror, news about the illegal invasion of Iraq, the corporate puppet presidents, the war criminal Tony Blair, September 11th 2001, the USS Liberty and New World Order crimes against humanity.

Scott Ritter's Excellent CALTECH Speech on Nov. 13th, 2002 - page 4