War Without End

sharkman

In a message dated 6/1/02 10:26:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, xkngcty writes:

Subj:Re: why israel is no friend of the usa
Date:6/1/02 10:26:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:xkngcty

Your venom sounds like Israel is surrounding all these poor, impotent neighbors, instead of the other way around. The Arab Palestinians should have accepted the UN partition plan of 1947 instead of vowing to throw all the Jews into the sea. For 54 years these same oligarchial, dictatorial nations have preached the same mantra...kill all the Jews! Better for the Israelis to overreact than to have a repeat of the
Munich Agreement. You sound quite one-sided and are totally ignorant of the facts.

sharkman replies:

i am not saying kill the jews as you saying such is simply your apparent zionist "smoke-screen" . however, if the jews hadn't gone to palestine (after centuries of not being the majority there), would we have the problems of today? it serves no purpose to undo israel either, but the rogue state which still defies un security council resolutions has to stop stealing the remaining 22 percent of palestinian land with the continued settlement building that is endorsed by the brutal nature of ariel sharon and is mentioned in the following articles:

http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=276379

http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=292865

i don't support the racist views that david duke has been accused of putting forth, but he couldn't be more accurate than what he has written in the following article about how israelis have savagely murdered palestinians over the years (with the western world's acquiescence) as sharon should be in the dock of the hague (with milosevic) as he was even reprimanded by the israeli government for such atrocity:

http://www.davidduke.com/writings/howisraeliterror.shtml

http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=294787

also, i don't want my country taking sides with israel in such a holy war just because israel has a powerful lobby which corrupts my country's government by passing bogus resolutions and continuing to send billions and billions of us taxpayer dollars to facilitate israel's continued oppression of the palestinian people...

my country's government is not working in the best interest of the usa and has to be voted out of power when people finally wake up to such... people are starting to wake up to such as eloquently mentioned in the following article by robert fisk:

http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=285777

i don't want to see the usa continue to facilitate the israeli oppression of the palestinian people as i suggest you take a look at what is written at the following url as well:

http://www.flashpoints.net

if you would like to learn even more, please access the post in the "uk involvement in war" thread via the following url:

www.itszone.co.uk/

if someone came and took my land after my family had been living on it for over fifty generations, i certainly would not accept half of it being taken from me as you proposed.. i would fight to get it back like the freedom fighter palestinians have been doing... especially when the likud party recently voted to deny the palestinians statehood. by the way, did you know that the likud party of sharon and netanyahu was founded on the terrorism of former israeli prime minister begin's irgun and stern gang, so isn't it a bit hypocritical for likud to be calling the palestinians terrorists?:

http://ihr.org/jhr/v03/v03p-88_Clarke.html

sorry, but you and i are not going to see eye to eye on this one no matter how much you try to spin it as such spin only works on the ignorant...

sharkman · Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2002 11:05 pm Post subject: interview with ariel sharon

'Better A Live Judeo-Nazi
Than A Dead Saint' - Sharon, 1982
About The Soft And The Delicate
By Amos Oz
5-20-2

Note - The following interview with Ariel Sharon was published in the Israeli daily 'Davar' on Dec. 17, 1982.

"You can call me anything you like. Call me a monster or a murderer. Just note that I don't hate Arabs. On the contrary. Personally, I am much more at east with them, and especially with the Bedouin, than with Jews. Those Arabs we haven't yet spoilt are proud people, they are irrational, cruel and generous. It's the Yids that are all twisted. In order to straighten them out you have to first bend them sharply the other way. That, in brief, is my whole ideology.

"Call Israel by any name you like, call it a Judeo-Nazi state as does Leibowitz. Why not? Better a live Judeo-Nazi than a dead saint. I don't care whether I am like Ghadafi. I am not after the admiration of the gentiles. I don't need their love. I don't need to be loved by Jews like you either. I have to live, and I intend to ensure that my children will live as well. With or without the blessing of the Pope and the other religious leaders from the New York Times. I will destroy anyone who will raise a hand against my children, I will destroy him and his children, with or without our famous purity of arms. I don't care if he is Christian, Muslim, Jewish or pagan. History teaches us that he who won't kill will be killed by others. That is an iron law.

"Even if you'll prove to me by mathematical means that the present war in Lebanon is a dirty immoral war, I don't care. Moreover, even if you will prove to me that we have not achieved and will not achieve any of our aims in Lebanon, that we will neither create a friendly regime in Lebanon nor destroy the Syrians or even the PLO, even then I don't care. It was still worth it. Even if Galilee is shelled again by Katyushas in a year's time, I don't really care. We shall start another war, kill and destroy more and more, until they will have had enough. And do you know why it is all worth it? Because it seems that this war has made us more unpopular among the so-called civilised world.

"We'll hear no more of that nonsense about the unique Jewish morality, the moral lessons of the holocaust or about the Jews who were supposed to have emerged from the gas chambers pure and virtuous. No more of that. The destruction of Eyn Hilwe (and it's a pity we did not wipe out that hornet's nest completely!), the healthy bombardment of Beirut and that tiny massacre (can you call 500 Arabs a massacre?) in their camps which we should have committed with our own delicate hands rather than let the Phalangists do it, all these good deeds finally killed the bullshit talk about a unique people and of being a light upon the nations. No more uniqueness and no more sweetness and light. Good riddance."

"I personally don't want to be any better than Khomeini or Brezhnev or Ghadafi or Assad or Mrs. Thatcher, or even Harry Truman who killed half a million Japanese with two fine bombs. I only want to be smarter than they are, quicker and more efficient, not better or more beautiful than they are. Tell me, do the baddies of this world have a bad time? If anyone tries to touch them, the evil men cut his hands and legs off. They hunt and catch whatever they feel like eating. They don't suffer from indigestion and are not punished by Heaven. I want Israel to join that club. Maybe the world will then at last begin to fear me instead of feeling sorry for me. Maybe they will start to tremble, to fear my madness instead of admiring my nobility. Thank god for that. Let them tremble, let them call us a mad state. Let them understand that we are a wild country, dangerous to our surroundings, not normal, that we might go crazy if one of our children is murdered - just one! That we might go w

ild and burn all the oil fields in the Middle East! If anything would happen to your child, god forbid, you would talk like I do. Let them be aware in Washington, Moscow, Damascus and China that if one of our ambassadors is shot, or even a consul or the most junior embassy official, we might start World War Three just like that !" ......We are talking while sitting on the balcony of the pretty country house belonging to C. which is situated in a prosperous Moshav. To the west we see a burning sunset and there is a scent of fruit trees in the air. We are being served iced coffee in tall glasses. C. is about fifty years old. He is a man well known for his (military) actions. He is a strong, heavy figure wearing shorts but no shirt. His body is tanned a metallic bronze shade, the colour of a blond man living in the sun. He puts his hairy legs on the table and his hands on the chair. There is a scar on his neck. His eyes wander over his plantations. He spells out his ideology in a

voice made hoarse by too much smoking:

"Let me tell me [sic] what is the most important thing, the sweetest fruit of the war in Lebanon: It is that now they don't just hate Israel. Thanks to us, they now also hate all those Feinschmecker Jews in Paris, London, New York, Frankfurt and Montreal, in all their holes. At last they hate all these nice Yids, who say they are different from us, that they are not Israeli thugs, that they are different Jews, clean and decent. Just like the assimilated Jew in Vienna and Berlin begged the anti-Semite not to confuse him with the screaming, stinking Ostjude, who had smuggled himself into that cultural environment out of the dirty ghettos of Ukraine and Poland. It won't help them, those clean Yids, just as it did not help them in Vienna and Berlin. Let them shout that they condemn Israel, that they are all right, that they did not want and don't want to hurt a fly, that they always prefer being slaughtered to fighting, that they have taken it upon themselves to teach the gentiles

how to be good Christians by always turning the other cheek. It won't do them any good. Now they are getting it there because of us, and I am telling you, it is a pleasure to watch.

"They are the same Yids who persuaded the gentiles to capitulate to the bastards in Vietnam, to give it in to Khomeini, to Brezhnev, to feel sorry for Sheikh Yamani because of his tough childhood, to make love not war. Or rather, to do neither, and instead write a thesis on love and war. We are through with all that. The Yid has been rejected, not only did he crucify Jesus, but he also crucified Arafat in Sabra and Shatila. They are being identified with us and that's a good thing! Their cemeteries are being desecrated, their synagogues are set on fire, all their old nicknames are being revived, they are being expelled from the best clubs, people shoot into their ethnic restaurants murdering small children, forcing them to remove any sign showing them to be Jews, forcing them to move and change their profession.

"Soon their palaces will be smeared with the slogan: Yids, go to Palestine! And you know what? They will go to Palestine because they will have no other choice! All this is a bonus we received from the Lebanese war. Tell me, wasn't it worth it?

"Soon we will hit on good times. The Jews will start arriving, the Israelis will stop emigrating and those who already emigrated will return. Those who had chosen assimilation will finally understand that it won't help them to try and be the conscience of the world. The 'conscience of the world' will have to understand through its arse what it could not get into its head. The gentiles have always felt sick of the Yids and their conscience, and now the Yids will have only one option: to come home, all of them, fast, to install thick steel doors, to build a strong fence, to have submachine guns positioned at every corner of their fence here and to fight like devils against anyone who dares to make a sound in this region. And if anyone even raises his hand against us we'll take away half his land and burn the other half, including the oil. We might use nuclear arms. We'll go on until he no longer feels like it...

"...You probably want to know whether I am not afraid of the masses of Yids coming here to escape anti-semitism smearing us with their olive oil until we go all soft like them. Listen, history is funny in that way, there is a dialectic here, irony. Who was it who expanded the state of Israel almost up the boundaries of the kingdom of King David? Who expanded the state until it covered the area from Mount Hermon to Raz Muhammad? Levi Eshkol. Of all people, it was that follower of Gordon, that softie, that old woman. Who, on the other hand, is about to push us back into the walls of the ghetto? Who gave up all of Sinai in order to retain a civilised image? Beitar's governor in Poland, that proud man Menahem Begin. So you can never tell. I only know one thing for sure: as long as you are fighting for your life all is permitted, even to drive out all the Arabs from the West Bank, everything.

"Leibowitz is right, we are Judeo-Nazis, and why not? Listen, a people that gave itself up to be slaughtered, a people that let soap to be made of its children and lamp shades from the skin of its women is a worse criminal than its murderers. Worse than the Nazis...If your nice civilised parents had come here in time instead of writing books about the love for humanity and singing Hear O Israel on the way to the gas chambers, now don't be shocked, if they instead had killed six million Arabs here or even one million, what would have happened? Sure, two or three nasty pages would have been written in the history books, we would have been called all sorts of names, but we could be here today as a people of 25 million!

"Even today I am willing to volunteer to do the dirty work for Israel, to kill as many Arabs as necessary, to deport them, to expel and burn them, to have everyone hate us, to pull the rug from underneath the feet of the Diaspora Jews, so that they will be forced to run to us crying. Even if it means blowing up one or two synagogues here and there, I don't care. And I don't mind if after the job is done you put me in front of a Nuremberg Trial and then jail me for life. Hang me if you want, as a war criminal. Then you can spruce up your Jewish conscience and enter the respectable club of civilised nations, nations that are large and healthy. What you lot don't understand is that the dirty work of Zionism is not finished yet, far from it. True, it could have been finished in 1948, but you interfered, you stopped it. And all this because of the Jewishness in your souls, because of your Diaspora mentality. For the Jews don't grasp things quickly. If you open your eyes and look aro

und the world you will see that darkness is falling again. And we know what happens to a Jew who stays out in the dark. So I am glad that this small war in Lebanon frightened the Yids. Let them be afraid, let them suffer. They should hurry home before it gets really dark. So I am an anti-Semite ? Fine. So don't quote me, quote Lilienblum instead [an early Russian Zionist - ed.]. There is no need to quote an anti-Semite. Quote Lilienblum, and he is definitely not an anti-Semite, there is even a street in Tel Aviv named after him. (C. quotes from a small notebook that was lying on his table when I arrived:) 'Is all that is happening not a clear sign that our forefathers and ourselves...wanted and still want to be disgraced? That we enjoy living like gypsies.' That's Lilienblum. Not me. Believe me. I went through the Zionist literature, I can prove what I say.

"And you can write that I am disgrace to humanity, I don't mind, on the contrary. Let's make a deal: I will do all I can to expel the Arabs from here, I will do all I can to increase anti-semitism, and you will write poems and essays about the misery of the Arabs and be prepared to absorb the Yids I will force to flee to this country and teach them to be a light unto the gentiles. How about it ?"

It was there that I stopped C.'s monologue for a moment and expressed the thought passing through my mind, perhaps more for myself than for my host. Was it possible that Hitler had not only hurt the Jews but also poisoned their minds? Had that poison sunk in and was still active? But not even that idea could cause C. to protest or raise his voice. After all, he said to have never shouted under stress, even during the famous operations his name is associated with..."

--------- End Forwarded Message ---------

sharkman

Ariel Sharon: The War Criminal Takes Over
by Rabbi Michael Lerner

Many American Jews are responding to the election of Ariel Sharon as Prime Minister of Israel with sadness, mourning and disgust. When Ariel Sharon was forced to resign from his position as Defense Minister during the Lebanon War, most Israelis felt that they had finally rid themselves of a man whose record of violence could no longer be ignored. Though his troops only supervised but didn't personally do the shooting of the hundreds of civilians in
the Sabra and Shatilla refugee camps, the Israeli public knew of his many other acts of terror (including massacres of civilian Bedoins in the Sinai). By standards now being applied in Kosovo and Serbia, Ariel Sharon should have been brought to trial for war crimes. Instead, he now has been elected Prime Minister.
Outgoing Prime Minister Ehud Barak would like to blame this all on the Palestinians and their failure to accept his generous offers. But the reality is that Barak's offers were mean-spirited and limited. Barak was elected in a euphoria of hope for peace and he had a mandate to move ahead decisively. Had he announced an unequivocal intention to dismantle the West Bank settlements, allow for a limited number of Palestinian refugees to return each
year, and create a climate of real cooperation to provide Palestinians with the economic infrastructure to make a Palestinian state viable, Barak could have built his electoral mandate into a permanent peace force.

Barak could have appealed to traditional Jewish values like the Torah's unequivocal commandment to "Love the stranger." He could have urged Israelis as a patriotic duty to begin to create dialogue groups with Palestinians and Israeli Arabs and to explore other paths for people-to-people reconciliation. Israeli idealism would have responded had it been tapped.

Instead, Barak played to his Right. He insisted that he would never compromise on Jerusalem or dismantle settlements. He did nothing to prepare the population for concessions he would eventually find necessary to make or to build reconciliation. Nor were his peace offers as generous as the media sometimes portrays. Even his last offer would have left 200,000 settlers, fully armed and hostile to Palestinians, on the West Bank. Israeli Arabs
contributed mightily to Barak's electoral victory last time, but Barak refused to give them even a single seat in his cabinet on the grounds that having such an Arab would "discredit" his government. When Israeli Arabs protested the massive use of force to repress their Palestinian brothers and sisters rioting in outrage after Ariel Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount last September, dozens were wounded, thousands faced pogroms from angry Jewish
crowds wondering through and stoning their homes, and at least 17 were killed by Israeli bullets,—yet Barak could only find the courage to apologize for this in the last three days of the election when he finally realized how much he had lost his own base of support. No wonder why so many found it hard to rally to his support.

The path that Israel is following is no surprise. Countries that seek to maintain by force the occupation over another people will eventually drift toward repressive or even fascistic leadership. Half way measures of the sort offered by Barak cannot work. Either Israel ends the Occupationm dismantles the settlements, and gets out of the West Bank, or it will drift to the Right until it has the likes of Ariel Sharon at its helm. But with Sharon,
Israel could follow a path designed to provoke a wave of ethnic cleansing much like that which caused the Palestinian refugee problem in the first place. George Bush senior was the only U.S. President to have the courage to stand up to the "Israel-right or wrong" lobby that claims to speak for most American Jews. Bush Sr. told them to stop expanding settlements or lose US "loan guarantees" for money Israel sought to resettle Soviet Jews. When
Israeli Prime Minister Shamir refused, Bush stuck to his guns, and the result was to create economic pressures inside Israel which helped elect pro-peace prime minister Yitzhak Rabin in 1992.

It seems unlikely that George W. will have similar courage or vision. Ironically, standing up to Israel and insisting that it dismantle the settelements, get out of the West Bank and Gaza, and accept publicily part of the responsibility for having caused the Paelstinian refugee problem (and state its willingness to take back a portion of those refugees small enough to not upset the Jewish character of Israel) is the most pro-Jewish thing he could
do, though many Jews wouldn't read it that way.

The truth is that Judaism and the Jewish people are suffering from the impact of the Occupation. The mean-spiritedness in Israel that leads to a Sharon landslide makes many younger Israelis wish to leave Israel and settle in the U.S., and many young American Jews to say "my parents were Jewish" rather than claim an identity defined by Israelis as oppressors and people who think that power is more important than love.

When the American Jewish establishment rallies around such an Israel, they do more to drive young Jews into assimilation than any fear of anti-Semitism could ever do.

So, many American Jews greet the election of Ariel Sharon with great sadness and mourning—mourning for Israel and mourning for the soul of the Jewish people. With Ariel Sharon leading Israel, the world will be a scarier place for everyone.

War Without End

The global war against terror, news about the illegal invasion of Iraq, the corporate puppet presidents, the war criminal Tony Blair, September 11th 2001, the USS Liberty and New World Order crimes against humanity.

the bloodstained legacy of ariel sharon